Shotokan Sparring Stance

[SevenStar]

I think it's obvious that this is a pose. However, the hand position is similar to what I see in karate, and the way I was taught when I was training it - one hand covers the body and the other covers the face. IMO, their lead hand is somewhat low. I personally prefer a boxing guard though, as I want both hands guarding my head. My arms and elbows can guard my midsection.

 

the deep stance is what you would see after a throw - not from striking, IME and IMO. If you are doing o soto gari and let the reaping leg touch the floor while it's extended back after completing the sweep, what stance are you in? Also, when you throw tai otoshi - especially for the guys who step deep when the execute it - it looks like a modified forward stance.

[cross]

Do any of you see an issue with training in karate and using the boxing guard?

Edited March 28, 2005 by cross

[Dijita]

Do any of you see an issue with training in karate and using the boxing guard?

 

Kyokushin, a style of Karate, uses a boxing type guard (for the fighting stance); both hands protect the face/head, arms and elbows protect the midsection.

Edited December 8, 2004 by Dijita

[ineluki]

Definately a posed photo stance, and a bad one at that for Shotokan standards...

 

Is it me or are their thumbs really on the side of the fists?

[SevenStar]

having the thumb on the side is a valid method of forming a fist. Not all schools teach it, however.

[Killer Miller]

If the thumbs are on the "side" of the fist, this would be very much incorrect by Shotokan standards. However, some styles do teach it. Although, one of their hands does have the thumb underneath like it should.

 

Another technical note is that their wrists on three of the hands are bent a little - also a big no no by Shotokan standards.

 

But I'm not holding any of that against them because I know it's a posed picture. The point is, many or most people will see this picture and assume that it accurately represents Shotokan from a technical perspective - and it does not... It's just a pose and nothing more.

 

- Killer -

Definately a posed photo stance, and a bad one at that for Shotokan standards...

 

Is it me or are their thumbs really on the side of the fists?

[Killer Miller]

By Karate standards, yes.

 

Although it provides execellent blocking to the face and groin, there's much more to that hand positioning than what most realize.

 

It's in that general position for various reasons, such as:

• * Sweeping type of blocks.
   
  * To guide the attack away from your body instead of having to muscle it when it gets too close to the body.
   
  * To easily grab or throw.
   
  * To block sight-of-attack from your opponent.
   
  * With the elbows inward to your body, it provides the shortest, most efficient and direct course to your target.
   
  * With the body at a 45 degree angle, as well as elbows in, it provides "no" opening to the mid-section at all...
   
  * Etc., etc...

 

We don't worry much about swweps and attacks to the lower section because we just move out of the way or bring our knees up as a third arm for blocking - and perhaps a quick sweep or kick afterwards.

 

I could go on for many other reasons why we do this, but I think you get the general idea.

 

- Killer -

Do any of you see an issue with training in karate and using the boxing guard?

[cross]

Just a couple of points:

 

I practise for self defence among other reasons.

* To guide the attack away from your body instead of having to muscle it when it gets too close to the body.

 

From my experience i have noticed that most fights start from closer than this hand position is designed for.

* With the body at a 45 degree angle, as well as elbows in, it provides "no" opening to the mid-section at all...

 

Also in a self defence situation most attacks are usually directed at the head, not the mid section.

 

My reasoning is simply this, i would rather protect my head and move my hands to protect my mid section if needed. As opposed to protecting my mid section and having to move my hands to protect my head.

[Killer Miller]

Cross, there's a magic bubble or distance (so-to-speak) that is taught in Shotokan. If you're opponent is that area you either attack or move to a safe distance and let them attack. With the hands in the position that we teach, it is difficult for an attacker to get in close as you refer to.

 

As far as guarding the head or groin area, it's no problem at all with this hand position - it's just a quick block to the head or groing and then quickly back to the sparring center or ready position. It's far more difficult than you might think. I can count on my hand how many times someone has broken through that hand positioning with me. That's why there is a lot of timing training... The idea is for your opponent (or yourself) to "draw out" or create an opening for a split second to create an opening for an attack - that's what Karate is truly all about.

 

Additionally, with the body at 45 degrees, it's almost impossible for the attacker to execute an effective punch to your mid section. At the 45 degree positioning the punches just glide off your body if they do break through your guard. Now the idea is to throw off your opponents timing enough to create an opening and also position yourself to where you are punching straight on to your opponent.

 

A final note about Shotokan. We train mostly to attack the mid-section instead of the head or goin. It is extremely difficult to land an effective atttack to the mid-section. Therefore, it requires a lot more training, timing training, etc. to develop the skills necessary to create such an opening and be effective.

 

As far as attacking to the head or groin, it's a piece of cake. I could nail someone anytime I want to the head or groin - it's very easy to do if you get close enough to me. However, to nail someone in the mid-section requires a lot more training and talent.

 

- Killer -

[cross]

As far as attacking to the head or groin, it's a piece of cake.

 

So you find it easier to hit smaller moving targets than the largest part of the body(mid-section)?