Shotokan Sparring Stance

[Killer Miller]

Size is not the issue here. If you have "any" opening at all in the mid-section, I'm goina nail you. The head is easy to attack because you have to see, and there's always an opening. If not, I can easily create an opening... The groing, for the most part, is typically rarely covered by a person and I can usually nail you there because you're not going to be fast enough to block it.

 

A mid-section well protected is hard to penetrate. Going for the face or groin under these circumstances is far more difficult. You have better vision to see what the oponent is doing overall, and plenty of time to react to it. Covering the face restricts vision and creates openings in the lower section of the body.

 

Now you mights say that "boxers" cover their face. This is true. But a boxer is fighting with only two hands and doesn't have to worry about a quick front snap to the groin area...

 

- Killer -

As far as attacking to the head or groin, it's a piece of cake.

 

So you find it easier to hit smaller moving targets than the largest part of the body(mid-section)?

[cross]

Its still very possible to "cover" the face without blocking vision, or at least have your hands in a high position where the face can more readily be protected.

[Killer Miller]

To block only the face, as in boxing, that may be true. But not true in terms of Karate where you have to cover and protect the entire body - two hands and two feet.

 

- Killer -

Its still very possible to "cover" the face without blocking vision, or at least have your hands in a high position where the face can more readily be protected.

[cross]

To block only the face, as in boxing, that may be true.

 

The boxing guard blocks "only" the face just as much as the karate guard blocks "only" the mid-section.

[Killer Miller]

I see the rational you are trying to make, but missing the big picture.

 

Karate guard positioning is designed to fully cover the mid section as well as easily being able to block the face and groin section. The lower section is blocked by one of the feet or knees.

 

Now if your art says that you can only attack the upper body area, then perhaps the boxing guard might work. But in our art where you attack the entire body from head to toe, the boxing guard is severely lacking - not goina work...

 

- Killer -

To block only the face, as in boxing, that may be true.

 

The boxing guard blocks "only" the face just as much as the karate guard blocks "only" the mid-section.

[cross]

Ill just stick with the boxing guard, it works for me.

Edited April 16, 2005 by cross

[Lord Apocalypse]

Karate has blocks?! What an amazing thing.

[Nick_UKWC]

Cross, there's a magic bubble or distance (so-to-speak) that is taught in Shotokan. If you're opponent is that area you either attack or move to a safe distance and let them attack. With the hands in the position that we teach, it is difficult for an attacker to get in close as you refer to.

 

As far as guarding the head or groin area, it's no problem at all with this hand position - it's just a quick block to the head or groing and then quickly back to the sparring center or ready position. It's far more difficult than you might think. I can count on my hand how many times someone has broken through that hand positioning with me. That's why there is a lot of timing training... The idea is for your opponent (or yourself) to "draw out" or create an opening for a split second to create an opening for an attack - that's what Karate is truly all about.

 

Additionally, with the body at 45 degrees, it's almost impossible for the attacker to execute an effective punch to your mid section. At the 45 degree positioning the punches just glide off your body if they do break through your guard. Now the idea is to throw off your opponents timing enough to create an opening and also position yourself to where you are punching straight on to your opponent.

 

A final note about Shotokan. We train mostly to attack the mid-section instead of the head or goin. It is extremely difficult to land an effective atttack to the mid-section. Therefore, it requires a lot more training, timing training, etc. to develop the skills necessary to create such an opening and be effective.

 

As far as attacking to the head or groin, it's a piece of cake. I could nail someone anytime I want to the head or groin - it's very easy to do if you get close enough to me. However, to nail someone in the mid-section requires a lot more training and talent.

 

- Killer -

 

I don't know. I read this and the impression I got was that you say no one will ever hit your head or groin because it's just SO easy to defend, and certainly not your torso...and even if they could that wouldn't have any effect anyway.

 

But then at the same time you say you could strike anyone else's head or groin "anytime I want to". I find this pretty hard to buy really. I have no idea how that picture stacks up against what that guard should look like (hoping for a better picture) but it doesn't look quite as fool proof as you make out.

 

Maybe you have years upon years of training, maybe you know no one can ever hit you and you can hit them anytime you like through experience alone, but to me it seems like a pretty arrogant and certainly contradictory point of view - unless you are talking about the ideal application of that stance and little else.

 

For instance, when you spar with two people both in this position, someone loses, someone gets hit. If you can do it to each other why on earth couldn't someone do it to you.

[Killer Miller]

Nick_UKWC,

 

Although I am at high level and a good part true what I said from a perfection view point, but that was not my intention to the point I was trying to make. Without very good technique, it's very difficult to get through the mid-section properly blocked. The head and groin area are easy to block when being use to training this method over time. Anytime someone attacks you, without perfect sparring technique, I can nail most less experienced Karate-ka in the head or groin without problem because because they don't maintain a good sparring posture. I'm fast and accurate and can easily create ungaurded openings.

 

Is this easy with other high level Karate-ka. Definately not. They know how to keep an appropriate distance and maintain a proper sparring posture throughout the entire match. Most of my background is from tournament sparring. Although, we would practice multi-attack defense on occasion, our primary focus was one-on-one for tournaments. So my answer may have sounded arogant - a reasonable assumption. But my answer was really based on my past training background compared to the average Karate-ka and also the fact that the bulk of this forum (based on conversations I seen so far) is at a lower level than I have trained.

 

I trained a lot of years with the US team and various international teams - not going into name dropping, I say this only to make a point. Anyhow, all of these higher level Karate-ka always maintain a certain distance from your opponent - unless attacking or being attacked. This is what you train to do for competition. When you keep this distance, you can always maintain a full vision of what your opponent is going to do, as well as being able to read his/her breathing timing as to what they are going to do... So when they attack, you have plenty time to use Sen, Sen-no-sen, Sen-go-no-sen, Kake Waze, Sasoi Waza, etc. However, if the attacker creaps into your bubble or zone without attacking, and I read your breathing timing and know you are thinking of attacking, I can easily nail you in the groin or head without thought. This is because you (meaning anyone that would get that close to me) are too close to me (meaning any high level Karate-ka that knows better and also knows that an experienced Karate-ka wouldn't get this close) and are within an easy arms reach or slight shift could not move your body faster than I can move my punching arm or kicking foot to nail you in the head or groin.

 

So I apologize is this sounded arogant. But I have to tell you, any highly experienced Karate-ka would know this as well. You get in too close, or come in not properly guarded for the entire body, and not maintain a proper sparring posture throughout, you are going to get absolutely nailed by any high level Karate-ka. You won't see it coming, it will just happen naturally.

 

Fuel for thought...

 

- Killer -

[Sho-ju]

Here's a pic of what mine looks like:

 

http://ahfaa.org/box1.JPG