What art is better for street fighting?

[Kajukenbopr]

Sub Grappler

we dont live in a videogame, but the only way someone cant find a weapon on the floor is if you're living inthe cleanest city ever. maybe a bottle on the ground, a stick, a rock,even some dirt to throw at ur eyes- anything that can hurt you can make you lose a fight.

or even worse, you give him time for his friends to get there.....

Also, against small groups, it is possible to fight and win. 2-3 people can get beaten, I've seen it before, and even against more people. Against groups of about 6 or more people winning a fight is almost, if not impossible.

[BLueDevil]

In my MA philosophy, it holds true that ANYTHING could be a weapon. its the weilder(sp?) that breathes life into its purpose

[Anbu Alex]

i dunno about in NJ but in NYC there are nothing but weapons on the floor broom sticks (staffs hanbo, etc) bottles, trash cans, coat hangers etc.

[McBeth]

Hey Guys,

Great discussion! I know I’m entering a bit late, and may re-hash some topics that have already been covered. But I just wanted to chime in with my few cents. Overall, I agree with delta1's post on page 1. Nearly all street fights begin standing up and a large percentage (but no where near an overwhelming majority) end up with someone falling, slipping, or being taken to the ground. But it doesn’t always end there, since many times fights resume back up on the feet again. I also do not think ground grappling is the most effective system to know for true street confrontations. It is good to know and perhaps even necessary, but I agree that stand up knowledge is more important, especially clinch fighting. And 99% of street fights I’ve seen or been in have gone into the clinch. You have to clinch in order to take a fight to the ground and even strikers will pass through the clinching stage at some point during a fight, unless the fight ends with one of those one punch knock downs. So I think stand up grappling is far more valuable than ground grappling.

Also, like Sinar89 stated if you go to the ground you are in deep trouble in a real street confrontation. You’ll be given a shoe shine real quick by your enemy's friends, whether you’re winning or losing. Certainly, a multiple opponent scenario is one of the worst situations to be faced with, regardless of whether you are a striker or a grappler, but at least someone who is still standing can run away or run to some location of safety or where he might be able to pick up an improvised weapon to equalize the situation. If you’re on the ground, you’re immobilized along with your opponent and easy pickin’s for his friends. Your opponent doesn't even have to fight you. He just has to hold you and keep you from running away. His friends will do the rest for him. Even securing a hold of one of your wrists or ankles will be enough to severely turn the tide against you simply because your movement is so restricted.

I also disagree with Gumbi who implied that a good ground fighter could determine whether a fight was taken to the ground or remained standing. That’s simply not true, though a ground grappler may have better odds at determining that scenario than a pure striker. A person versed in ground fighting will still have a very tough time taking an expert clinch fighter to the floor. Many experts in BJJ have had trouble taking down good wrestlers or judokas, while the latter have taken down and achieved a dominant position over BJJ players rather easily. Wrestlers and judokas are experts in the clinch and decent ground fighters as well. BJJ practitioners are far superior on the ground, but I wouldn't say they were the best at determining whether a fight goes there or remains standing.

As far as weapons are concerned, during the middle of a heated fray there's no way you'll be searching for weapons lying on the street. Unless it is directly in front of you in plain view, you're focus will be on the opponent smashing your skull against the concrete or blasting your face with punches, rather than an improvised weapon. And if there are that many weapons available on the street as some have suggested, then if you pick one up, your opponent will too. And then the chances of your success hasn't improved dramatically. If he dominates you now, then you're that much worse off then when you started 'cause now he is armed.

For street fighting I think the best art is one that constantly reminds its students about the realities of actual combat. Fighting a live, resisting opponent is also crucial, but only to the extent that the opponent is fighting in a manner similar to how he would behave in a real fight. If you're used to NHB style fighting and your opponent decides to gouge your eyes and bite you in the neck, unless you expect that during a confrontation you won't know what to do when you're faced with it. And the truth is, untrained fighters are much more likely to engage in such tactics than trained fighters. Call it desperation but it works and I've seen it frazzle quite a few trained martial artists.

The martial art I'd like to pursure more is Yashai Warcraft. I attended a couple seminars by instructor Blaise Loong a few years ago and his system is utterly crazy (in a good sense). I would encourage you all to check him out. He's the real deal. I only wish he lived in my neck of the woods so I can train with him everyday. But if you aren't lucky enough to train with him or one of his students, then muay Thai, judo, and BJJ are pretty good starting places for any one interested in the martial arts. Wrestling is good too, but primarily for its takedowns and defenses against takedowns.

[Manabimasho1]

Most fights end up on the ground......unless you are lucky, very very good, or insanely strong/lucky, a real confrontation will end up on the ground. Period. I wouldn't ignore striking, but I sure wish I knew more grappling...

That is a sterotype- I was a bouncer for years and heard that I have seen 2% go to the ground and that is usualy only after one is too tired and beaten to stand.

Why would you learn to take a guy down on purpose if your in a club, in a line , at the subway, at the air port, at a bank.....Thank about it and you will realize it's useless unless the other guy has studied and grapples you.

[Kajukenbopr]

i'm planing on getting into martial arts soon but i'm still looking for the type i want. i'm wanting something that is actually good with street fighting. for example, kenpo karate isn't that good for street fighting because it teaches jujistu and that isn't good for street fighting. i say this because all the moves are grappling moves and you will never use that in a fight. main reason is casue you have to go on the ground and i don't know about where your at but here, alot of guys will jump in if your on the ground. so, what do you think is the best for actual fighting?

Kenpo is great for self defense. If you dont train right, you will never get to develop these skills. but if what you want is something easier to do, look for another style.

Kajukenbo is born from Kenpo. All of our techniques are self defense and have been proven effective on the street. We have karate, judo, jujitsu,kenpo,and chinese boxing, all mixed into one devastating art of self defense.

[Kajukenbopr]

Most fights end up on the ground......unless you are lucky, very very good, or insanely strong/lucky, a real confrontation will end up on the ground. Period. I wouldn't ignore striking, but I sure wish I knew more grappling...

That is a sterotype- I was a bouncer for years and heard that I have seen 2% go to the ground and that is usualy only after one is too tired and beaten to stand.

Why would you learn to take a guy down on purpose if your in a club, in a line , at the subway, at the air port, at a bank.....Thank about it and you will realize it's useless unless the other guy has studied and grapples you.

I agree. If someone is trying to use a takedown in a club or at the subway.... do you really think he knows a lot about fighting? no, hes desperate trying to hurt you....and you can avoid this easy.

most people wont let another get too close and being grappling because friends of either one would try to get into the fight.....that, and well, it also draws too much attention

[SubGrappler]

Most fights end up on the ground......unless you are lucky, very very good, or insanely strong/lucky, a real confrontation will end up on the ground. Period. I wouldn't ignore striking, but I sure wish I knew more grappling...

That is a sterotype- I was a bouncer for years and heard that I have seen 2% go to the ground and that is usualy only after one is too tired and beaten to stand.

Why would you learn to take a guy down on purpose if your in a club, in a line , at the subway, at the air port, at a bank.....Thank about it and you will realize it's useless unless the other guy has studied and grapples you.

I agree. If someone is trying to use a takedown in a club or at the subway.... do you really think he knows a lot about fighting? no, hes desperate trying to hurt you....and you can avoid this easy.

most people wont let another get too close and being grappling because friends of either one would try to get into the fight.....that, and well, it also draws too much attention

I also work in a bar. It is not a stereotype that most fights end up on the ground, you're simply breaking the fight up before it progresses how it natrually would.

Please explain how you can easily avoid being taken to the ground. Close enough to punch is close enough to grab as well.

People may not be knowledgable about takedowns, but rather would try a crude tackle to take the fight down. Most brawlers I've seen either throw power punches really well, resembling sluggers, or prefer to tackle someone down and pound on them.

[BLueDevil]

There are certain movements in Kempo that will help you avoid/defend against someone trying to clinch up. I dont think I would have a problem with someone trying clinch. I have also seen quite a few moves to avoid takedowns and holds that a grappler may put on. When my teacher was young he actually started out in Judo but went to kempo for its ability to inflict fast pain on his opponent, but he never discarded what he learned from Judo. So he lets us know what some grapplers will be looking for.

[IRKguy]

If you want to win fights in the street, train with an IDPA-certified instructor. If you want to survive and not end up going to prison, train with a good track coach.