kenpo vs. boxing

[Red J]

Now there's a response!

[Shane]

Going toe to toe with a boxer is not something you want to do and I would give it to the boxer, but the benifit of most martial arts is they try to cover the BIG PICTURE and that includes taking it further than toe to toe. I tell my students that its stupid to go toe to toe because every dog has their day and every punch can effect you different. Get in get some hard strikes take them to the ground and finish them while trying not to go to the ground yourself, but train for the ground just in case. Boxing does not cover that

[VinnieDaChin]

you describe kempo and it sounds a lot like boxing.

[delta1]

you describe kempo and it sounds a lot like boxing.

 

I've said it before, but it bears repeating: the only real difference in most styles is the principles and concepts they emphasize! But the basic principles of motion and power are consistent and unchanging, and there are only so many things the human body can do.

[delta1]

New TOW is up, and has a couple of examples of what we're talking about.

 

Mr. Tatum starts with his right blocking arm up for the demo, but you can start with your arm in any position, even down if you double factor. But notice how his block to the kick forces the opponent to plant where he wants. As a defense, the block is worthless because he moved. Its' sole purpose was to force the plant.

 

In the change up, Mr. Tatum talks about the pressing check (which could be done as a block also) keeping him from moving forward and canceling your sweep. But it also protects you from a strike with his lead hand/arm, as well as controling him. In Kenpo, we think in terms of dimensional control. The pressing check controls his deapth, aresting forward movement and possibly pushing him back and off ballance. It also checks his width, momentarily preventing him from turning. Height is checked to the extent that he is off ballance and momentarily unable to drop his height, or settle into a stance. All the three dimensions of a physical object are momentarily controlled or checked.

 

You'll hear Mr. Tatum mention 'directional harmony'. This is the concept that all your movements should work together in the same direction so as not to fight themselves. All his motion and the force of his strikes are moving in the same direction. (Yes, we use opposing forces, or what some systems call push-pull. They have directional harmony, even though acting in opposite directions, but this is a little more into the theory than I want to go right now.) Notice how these moves are simultaneouse and support each other.

 

This is also an example of thinking through the base technique, considering the what iffs and possible problems, and working out ways to make the technique work better. I think Mr. Parker realized that those who figure these things out for themselves internalize the knowlege better than those who are spoon fed everything. That is how AK is taught. Mr. Tatum only gave an example to get us started thinking. But with what he said and what I've added, we've only scratched the surface of what this technique teaches.

 

Any way, here's the clip. Enjoy!

 

http://www.ltatum.com/movies/Week36/TipOfTheWeekMedW36.html

[Mr. Mike]

I'm loving the debate, through and through.

 

As for the video, I wish to take nothing at all away from the presentation, since he isn't somebody I would critique even if I wanted to. However, I think the instep kick to the opponents trailing leg would have been better placed on the opponents leading leg, especially since he was moving forward and his weight was most likely on that leg...the strike would be quicker and cause more damage(again, speaking from a streetfight standpoint here, not sport karate). I wish not to sound pompous with this comment, rather it is simply what I would do.

 

Anyway, I wouldn't go toe to toe with a boxer unless I absolutely had to. I once had the displeasure of doing so and he was agile, powerful, and quick as a cobra. All things considered though, I would give it to the Kenpo stylist due to such a vast arsenal and the fact that we use anything that works. You'll rarely see a boxer(a boxer in the traditional boxing sense, like Ali) use the legs, or go for sweeps, ow when blocking/slipping trap a limb and wrap it up for a break. There are so many factors to consider, but all things equal, training hours, fitness level, etc., the Kenpo stylist has an advantage. It's what he does with that advantage that counts.

[delta1]

Mr. Mike, good to see another Kenpo stylist here! Welcome to the forum. American Kenpo, I'm guessing from your post.

 

 

... I think the instep kick to the opponents trailing leg would have been better placed on the opponents leading leg, especially since he was moving forward and his weight was most likely on that leg...the strike would be quicker and cause more damage

 

Interesting changeup. It would change your angle of incidence and your angle of entry for the groin strike, though. Does your sweeping leg interfere with the heel palm strike?

 

I get the idea here that Mr. Tatum is emphasizing control more than dammage. But in some of our discussions here, we (mostly me) have discussed the importance of working these types of changups, varrying the angles and what if's. Similar to the latest OTM subject. Be interesting to get your take on this topic as well.

[delta1]

http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=5847&start=20

[Mr. Mike]

Yes, IKCA.

 

I was thinkng of completely omitting the groin strike altogether. Either the instep kick to the leading leg, or a knife-edge to the trailing leg, and finish from there. After decimating one knee or the other, the fight usually isn't going much further. This isn't the best defense if you are worried about trigger-happy juries though

 

The what-if's must always be considered. There are a thousand variables for every attack, and one must learn to be spontaneous. At our school,we place a huge emphasis training as realistically as possible, just so people don't get stuck in the routine of practicing in a mirror, or with a partner and never getting the feel for any changes. There is a small group of us that take that a bit further by suiting up in either sparring gear or Bauer tactical suits and if we don't get the defense right, well, we get hit. Gottal love the what-if's.

 

btw, thanks for the welcome

[delta1]

Yes, IKCA.

 

Whoa! Are you one of Mr. Metz's students? He is one crazy, dedicated instructor! If you are with him, you have a good school. I believe he incorporates some TKD and a couple of other systems into his school.

 

I do IKCA Chinese Kenpo (video) and AKTS American Kenpo (private instruction). Just getting started in the IKCA. They do some things a little different, like turning the lead foot out a bit, especially in the forward bow. But I like that, as it's a little easier on my knees when doing some of the really energetic moves.