Misunderstood MMA?

[Shane]

Misunderstood MMA?

 

Are Mixed Martial Arts misunderstood in the martial arts world today? By this I mean do most martial artists believe that mma (mixed martial arts) are for competition only such as NHB fighting.

 

Our Mixed Martial Arts classes have a primary focus of self-defense, we train weapon defense, multiple attackers you name it. Its a mixed class due to the fact that we train several techniques from various styles to form a complete program. No one from our mixed martial arts class even competes. We grapple, we kickbox, we throw/takedown, we choke use locks, our goal is to end a fight as quick as possible getting in striking taking our attacker to the ground and finishing them so we can get away while trying not to go to the ground ourself, but if we do we train for it. We cover what to do if someone comes at you with a weapon or if more than one attacker is coming at you.

 

What do you think of when you see or hear of Mixed Martial Arts?

 

I know a lot of the fight events out their say Mixed Martial Arts and thats basically because in those events you are allowed to fight while standing, clinching, ground grappling you name it. The fight rules allow such a wide range of techniques that most style orientated competitions dont allow that you have to call it mixed martial arts but does that mean that MMA are designed for competition only? That would be like saying, since there are karate tournements that karate is only good for sport, or even better that muay thai is only effective in the ring hahaha we know muay thai is brutal outside of the ring.

 

Anyways let us know what you think when you see our hear MIXED MARTIAL ARTS?

[jarrettmeyer]

When I hear "Mixed Martial Arts", I think that the term is redundant. Unless, of course, your style has progress to 1600 AD and stopped progressing, your style is Mixed. None of these styles evolved in a vacuum.

 

This weekend, I learned to do the same hip throw in my goju class as I learned *cough* *hack* years ago when I started wrestling in junior high. Either my style has roots back in Rome, or freestyle wrestling started in Okinawa. Or maybe, just maybe, the concepts of warfare hold true regardless of culture.

 

Personally, when I hear "MMA", I think "Modern Martial Art." Let me go get my glow-in-the-dark kamas.

[SevenStar]

I think the confusion is over the actual term. mixed martial arts isn't a style, per se. It was the name coined for the fighters who compete in no holds barred competitions. The term reflected that the fighters crosstrained in both a striking and a grappling style. What's happening is that nowadays, enyone who's ever trained more than one style is calling themselves an MMA. so, you have people who trained in karate and tkd saying that they do mma, when actually, that's incorrect.

 

In my eyes, the term MMA indictates those who train in a striking and grappling art. Nothing more, nothing less. competition isn't a requirement, but if you don't compete, I wouldn't use the term MMA because the term implies competition. The other misconception that people have is that MMA is only sporting - as if it can't be used for self defense. It works both inside and outside the ring.

[SevenStar]

When I hear "Mixed Martial Arts", I think that the term is redundant. Unless, of course, your style has progress to 1600 AD and stopped progressing, your style is Mixed. None of these styles evolved in a vacuum.

 

This weekend, I learned to do the same hip throw in my goju class as I learned *cough* *hack* years ago when I started wrestling in junior high. Either my style has roots back in Rome, or freestyle wrestling started in Okinawa. Or maybe, just maybe, the concepts of warfare hold true regardless of culture.

 

Personally, when I hear "MMA", I think "Modern Martial Art." Let me go get my glow-in-the-dark kamas.

 

this is the misconception I was referring to. all styles may be mixed to some degree, but that doesn't mean that it incorporates both striking and grappling on at least a near equal level. longfist kung fu is mixed, but tends not to focus on grappling - especially ground grappling. This applies to pretty much all chinese styles. So, even though they may indeed be hybrid styles, I don't classify them as mma.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Whenever I travel, I try to visit local martial arts schools of any sort to see what the "other guy" is doing, and to understand what I do better by doing so.

 

The MMA's school I've seen say that they have combined the "best" of one art, and the "best" of another..etc..and come up with the perfect art.

 

*sigh*...well..what confuses the heck out of me is this. Why, when there are so many good, traditional (meaning long established and proven) arts out there that already contain all of the punching, kicking, grapplinbg, locking, biting and spitting that these MMA's say that they have gotten individually from other arts and combined? TKD kicks, boxing punches, BJJ take downs, etc.

 

And most of these MMA's don't have kata because it is "worthless". Worthless? A training tool that teaches every muscle in your body how to move efficiently and effectively is worthless?

 

From what I have seen from many of the origionators of MMA's schools, they might have a 1st black belt in TKD, green belt in karate, brown belt in something else..etc, and they think they know it all now and have a better way to do things...thus another "superior" martial arts is born.

 

I've had several of these MMA's in my area of the last 15 years or so. Each has come and gone...and I'm still here. I go in and meet and greet the instructor, talk about backgrounds and training, watch what they do if they'll let me (sometimes they won't), and walk out shaking my head in disgust at the silly things they are teaching their students, and the words they are saying to them. Granted...this isn't the case of all MMA's. I'm sure there are many that are legitimate and effective. However...most I don't believe, are in my experience.

[SevenStar]

Whenever I travel, I try to visit local martial arts schools of any sort to see what the "other guy" is doing, and to understand what I do better by doing so.

 

The MMA's school I've seen say that they have combined the "best" of one art, and the "best" of another..etc..and come up with the perfect art.

 

that would be the first red flag raised with me.

*sigh*...well..what confuses the heck out of me is this. Why, when there are so many good, traditional (meaning long established and proven) arts out there that already contain all of the punching, kicking, grapplinbg, locking, biting and spitting that these MMA's say that they have gotten individually from other arts and combined? TKD kicks, boxing punches, BJJ take downs, etc.

 

People get WAY too carried away with the MMA/jkd models. IMO, this is NOT mma, as I stated above. They strike me more as forms/style collectors who are trying to make a buck. The mma model is simple - striking and grappling. period. could be wrestling and boxing, judo and muay thai, bjj and muay thai, etc. and the teacher and students will have or gain an indepth knowledge of both.

 

 

And most of these MMA's don't have kata because it is "worthless". Worthless? A training tool that teaches every muscle in your body how to move efficiently and effectively is worthless?

 

because of the way they are taught and trained at alot of schools today. There are people running around who really think that kata teach you how to fight multiple attackers. These same students will teach that to someone when they become instructors. Not everyone knows to break the kata down into individual techniques and drill them. case in point - there is a thread on the karate forum right now where someone is asking how you use kata in a fight. In that thread, someone replied that they teach you how to fight multiple attackers...MMA guys who have only been experienced to TMA who think along those lines naturally view kata as useless.

From what I have seen from many of the origionators of MMA's schools, they might have a 1st black belt in TKD, green belt in karate, brown belt in something else..etc, and they think they know it all now and have a better way to do things...thus another "superior" martial arts is born.

 

IMO, this is the wrong approach. At my school, each class has coaches. Those coaches specialize in that style. We have to bjj brown belts who teach bjj. A guy with 10 years of thai boxing who coaches tha boxing, then myself and another guy are assistants. Two judo black belts that teach the judo classes. Some of us cross train, but we don't teach the other classes. I've got a brown belt in judo, so I will give pointers and such if asked, but I don't teach. several of the guys fight mma and many of us compete in our respective styles as well. All of the coaches compete, as do assistants.

 

The only thing we tend to think is superior are training methods. IMO, that's the main thing that separates sport fighters from TMA.

I've had several of these MMA's in my area of the last 15 years or so. Each has come and gone...and I'm still here. I go in and meet and greet the instructor, talk about backgrounds and training, watch what they do if they'll let me (sometimes they won't), and walk out shaking my head in disgust at the silly things they are teaching their students, and the words they are saying to them. Granted...this isn't the case of all MMA's. I'm sure there are many that are legitimate and effective. However...most I don't believe, are in my experience.

 

there were a couple of schools here like that as well - they are no longer in business.

[Beka]

I'm a bit confused on this as well. I certainly don't do MMA in the sense that I'm preparing for a cage fight or whatever, but I don't think my style is completely traditional either. Maybe because it is so new? Cuong Nhu is primarily shotokan based, but we incorporate bits of Judo, Aikido, Wing Chun, Vovinam, boxing, and Tai Chi. From what I understand, most of the Tai Chi and Vovinam is done after one recieves a black belt rank, but Judo and Aikido are definately incorporated at a white belt (I had to learn rolls for my first test, and after that, low falls and more rolls, which get heavily emphasized at brown belt level). At the black belt rank, people are also encouraged to go learn another style to bring it back to Cuong Nhu and help teach the lower ranks. My sensei is Sandan in Aikido (7th dan in Cuong Nhu, with 6th and 7th being honorary ranks based on how much you give back to the style), and another of my instructors studies Judo.

 

Cuong Nhu isn't about taking the best from here and there to make a "perfect" style, but more about rounding things out, in my opinion. I would consider it Mixed because yeah, it's mixed from different styles. But, we still do our kata and run around in our little gis and bow and all that. Cuong Nhu is a new style (developed in the 60s), so I am reluctant to call it "traditional," since traditions take time to grow. I am also reluctant to call it MMA because of the connotations like Seven Star's and Shorinryu sensei's.

 

So? What is it? I don't know yet.

[kickcatcher]

It is missunderstood more because people choose not to understand it. Whenever someone posts a topic like this it gets all political, typically with some 'traditional' (quasi-traditional a better term?) experts lecturing everyone on how it isn't anything new. It may be that the quasi-traditional mainstream arts feel threatened by MMA -whether they'd admit it or not.

 

It's not what's in the syllabus, but rather what you actually 'do'. Having a move that sort of looks like a shoot hidden away in the dusty corner of a kata does not make you a grappler in any meaningful way.

 

Yeah, so 'mixed' phase martial arts goes right back to pankration and beyond. But in a modern context (and this includes the so called 'traditional' arts), it goes all the way back to 1992.

 

MMA does have weaknesses. The main one as I see it is that self-defence is not always addressed. Sure some instructors are very street real. But MMA clubs can be purely competition based.

 

But on the plus side, the nature of the training and the basic techniques can, with a bit of street savvy, be an excellent base for Reality Based Self-defence.

[kempocos]

What I have seen is much as others. As an example I will refer to the MMA instructor near my house. As most he is in his early mid twenties and states that he as taken some Karate, Juijitsu mostly from a guy who trained under a BJJ blue belt and that is like 3rd dan in ANY TMA. TKD, Boxing and from this vast background he has taken the very best they offer to create this MMA program.

 

My issue is he never went beyond basics in anything so he never has seen the very best they offer. This is only an example and does not cover all MMA schools but it is a rising trend.

[delta1]

What do you think of when you see or hear of Mixed Martial Arts?

 

The term is used so loosely today, I doubt there is a universally recognized definition. My opinion:

 

Two or more seperate systems tought as seperate systems, at least one of which is a striking art and one of which is a grappling art. Usually thought of as hard contact sport oriented, but not necessarily allways.

 

The minute you start choosing and combining parts, and discarding large parts of the systems you teach, you are creating another system.

 

Regardless which you do (mma or new system) how effective you will be depends primarily on two things- how you train and how well you understand the principles and concepts of the variouse arts you are combining. No ammount of ability can make up for poor understanding when trying to just force a couple of arts into something you can tell everyone is your own style. And no ammount of knowlege can make up for lack of training and working out your theories under hard physical conditions.

 

That is the problem I think several of you are seeing in these McMMA schools that come and go. Some clown tries to stroke his ego and make a fast buck at the same time by throwing a few systems (that he has limmited knowlege in) together, gives himself a title, and a new ultimate style is born! The MMA phenom is about to fall prey to the same thing as the rest of the arts. And that's too bad.