wrestling vs. bjj - pros/cons

[Exponential]

I'm just curious what you guys think of the pros and cons of bjj and wrestling. Where do you think each have their strong points? Where do you think each have their week ones? What situations do you think one would have the advantage over. Please don't turn this into a which is best thing. Those only result in flame wars.

 

 

 

I did a quick search and didn't see any other posts with the same topic. If I missed one, I apologise.

[SevenStar]

bjj pros

 

strong in submissions from all positions

 

good at defending from their back

 

emphasis on control

 

wrestling pros

 

very agile

 

strong pins

 

awesome takedowns

 

 

 

bjj cons

 

lacking in takedowns

 

can get complacent on their backs

 

wrestling cons

 

lack of submissions

 

no fighting from their backs

 

 

 

Obviously, this is basic, but it's a start for you.

[Gumbi]

I agree with most of those pros and cons. I'll give my two cents as to how they do in MMA.

 

BJJ fighters are exceptional once the fight hits the ground, whether it be positional dominance or submissions. Fighting from their backs is also another trademark, which enables them to fight opponents who are far larger and still win. Since they're so good at submissions, a BJJ fighter is ALWAYS a threat since he can, at any time, catch a submission from no where and win the fight.

 

Problem occurs when fighting people who cross train- BJJ is known to have the weakest takedowns of just about any grappling style, not because they arent taught, but simply because they really arent emphasized. Their weakness would be sprawl and brawl type fighters like Cro Cop, Silva, and Liddel.

 

Wrestlers have spectacular takedowns, second to none, so its quite possible for a wrestler (like Mark Coleman for example) to not need to train standup, because its such a joke for him to take down anyone he fights. The problem with wrestlers happens when they cant finish a fight, or their lack of submission knowledge. Should they fight someone else with good takedowns, wrestling doesnt work when you're on your back.

 

Wrestlers do their best against fighters who are primarily sprawl and brawl fighters with limited takedown defense (Cro Cop, Yvel, Hunt) simply because wrestlers have such great takedowns. Their weakness is generally BJJ fighters, since even though they can take them down, lack of submission knowledge usually leads to being caught in a sub.

[VinnieDaChin]

sevenstar put it really, really well. id just like to add that wrestlers have a tendency to move more while bjj people can tend to not want to maneuver (usually a bad thing), but bjj has a lot more ways to hurt someone.

[Ottman]

I train at a BJJ school that has recently gotten a few high school wrestlers to start taking classes and it is definitely true that they have great takedowns, but the whole concept of pinning someone really gets in the way of their ground fighting. I find that the wrestlers in my class exert way too much energy when they're on the ground trying to maneuver you into the best position for a pin. They often get tired quickly while I just relax in guard position and wait for them to exhaust and make a mistake. Then its usually an easy submission. Now these guys are beginners and have a lot to learn in bjj, but, I being a mere low yellow belt, have already found a weakness to exploit that works 99% of the time. I'm not trying to knock these guys; they are in great shape, and would no doubt destroy me in a greco-roman wrestling match in a matter of seconds, but my point is that wrestling developed as a sport and evolved according to the rules of the sport, whereas bjj is a martial art developed for defense out on the street, and therefore defines a 'win' much differently than wrestling does. As all of us know, a pin won't really get you much out on the street, but an armbar that can easily break the arm, or a choke out that lasts until the foe really is out (unconscious.) These leave a lasting impression on the enemy. So if you're talking self defense and overall 'winning ability' out on the street, bjj wins everytime, and that is the downfall of wrestling if you consider it a martial art, rather than a sport.

[Gumbi]

I wouldnt downplay wrestling THAT much- while BJJ normally wins the style wars, the ability to take someone down and put them on their back is quite effective. Remember when you're sparring with them, you're fighting with rules that favor jiu jitsu (since subs arent taught in wrestling). Strikes on the ground can do well to mix up the fight a bit.

[Ottman]

I understand, and mentioned even, that the rules favored me in this case, but my point was that out on the street, a match between a bjj practitioner vs. a wrestling practitioner would, IMHO, go the way of the bjj guy 9 outta 10 times. This is because, as you said in your previous post, that wrestlers are weak in finishing fights, if they are outside of the rules of wrestling. This thread asked for pro's and con's and this is the biggest con for wrestlers who want to fight in mixed martial arts competitions, or who expect their wrestling skills to defend them on the streets.

 

As for pros of wrestiling, I love the takedowns. I wrestled a little in junior high, and am actually working with the wreslters in my bjj class to learn better takedowns as the wrestling takedowns are very effective to gain control in a bjj match, but if you do get into some trouble street-side, some people won't quit just because they've been put on their backs, and it's important for defense purposes to know how to finish a fight.

 

In competeition, of course bjj guys will win in bjj competition, and of course wrestlers will win in wrestling competitions, but mixed martial arts has already shown the strength of bjj as a style that you can finish with, and thus win with. Wrtestling moves will get you started, but give me an example of a wrestling move that was used to win in MMA competition, 'cus I can't think of one.

[Gumbi]

out on the street, a match between a bjj practitioner vs. a wrestling practitioner would, IMHO, go the way of the bjj guy 9 outta 10 times. This is because, as you said in your previous post, that wrestlers are weak in finishing fights, if they are outside of the rules of wrestling. if you do get into some trouble street-side, some people won't quit just because they've been put on their backs, and it's important for defense purposes to know how to finish a fight.

 

mixed martial arts has already shown the strength of bjj as a style that you can finish with, and thus win with. Wrtestling moves will get you started, but give me an example of a wrestling move that was used to win in MMA competition, 'cus I can't think of one.

 

Dont get me wrong- I agree 100% with you- I just didnt want it to seem like we were writing off wrestling so easily you know?

[VinnieDaChin]

ottman- where do you train that has yellow belts? bjj is supposed to go white-blue-purple-brown-black-red (usually dont make it to red, or black for that matter)

[Gumbi]

Under age 16 has white, yellow, orange, and green belts- typically, if a kid is a good green belt by the time hes 16, he can get his blue.