How to fight a WRESTLER with martial arts

[AngelaG]

Take out their knees before they get to you, side step and smack to their head etc.

 

If you are any good at your art a wrestler should not be able to get a hold of you before you have knocked him to the floor.

 

that's not true at all.

 

1. he's not shooting at you from a mile away, he's shooting from punching distance or closer. you most likely will not be able to sidestep in time, nor will you be able to unleash multiple strikes. If that first one doesn't drop him, you're gonna go down. Once he has you up in the air and going backward, you will have zero power to your strikes, and they will do no good until you are on the ground again - but that won't be until you are on your back.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that in order to learn to defend it, you need to actually defend it - that means working with someone who has grappling experience. Otherwise, They will be doing it all wrong. This is the reason that many people think defending a tackle is the same as defending a good double leg.

 

As far as defenses go, work takedown defenses, like the sprawl. After you've sprawled and stopped his momentum, THEN you worry about striking. Another option is to keep him back pedalling while he's standing. This is easier said than done, because a grappler doesn't mind absorbing a few shots if it means he will get you where he wants you. If you can keep him back pedalling though, he will be unable to shoot effectively, because it requires forward motion.

 

Personally I don't think as many fights go to the ground as people make out (I'm talking serious confrontations - not including the schoolyard type brawls). If you ever watch a fight kicking off it usually involves men pushing and shoving at each other... they'll get separated and then one will usually rush in and sucker punch the other. This means that it usually ends up with one person on the floor whilst the other stands up and him (and his mates) kick the cr*p out of the one on the floor!

 

1. I've seen several go to the ground. Also, in some instances, they are better serverd on the ground. For example, when you work security, you are allowed to restrain, but you cannot strike. What does that mean? That you will have to grapple.

 

2. It doesn't matter how often fights go to the ground. What matters is that some of them do go there. Even if statistics showed only 5 out of every 20 fights go to the ground, how do you know that you won't be one of those 5? You don't.

 

First of all I think we have to bear in mind that you are talking about a trained karateka and a trained wrestler here. Therefore you would hope that the karateka could snap out a low kick, or a punch before the wrestler gets the chance to grab. I don't think it's fair to say that a wrestler would definitely win or a karateka would definitely win, it would be down to whomever was most skilled (and perhaps a bit of luck on that day). Of course I personally believe that the vast majority that really throw themselves into intense training are doing it for self-defence, physical fitness, way of life etc. so the actual chances of two trained MA practitioners coming up against each other in a real street fight would be slim anyway.

 

Secondly, I have had several years worth of working in bars and pubs in the past, including ones in a pretty rough city. I have also dated a bar security personnel (bouncer) and my dad was a cop, so therefore I do have some experience of what I am talking about when I say that I'm sorry but you do not see people rolling around on the floor grappling in the same way two trained BJJ fighters grapple. At no point is this a criticism of the art, I'll be the first to agree that neither do you get two people sqaured up bouncing around doing reverse punches and above the belt kicks in a real fight.

 

Also the point about security taking people to the ground is, I think, wrong. If you watch most fights in pubs or clubs most of the time a security guard just wants to remove the trouble as soon as possible. They often do this by storming the person and overwhelming them (often by pure numbers) and then forcefully dragging them out. They may sometimes put a choke, arm bar or neck bar on etc. to help them on their way and help ensure the person cannot resist but they tend to not go to the floor (unless someone trips). Well I practice arm bars, chokes and headlocks in my karate anyway (and how to get out of them).

 

I guess it always comes down to the individual fighter. I suspect somebody that trains in sport karate would easily get overwhelmed by a wrestler, but someone with more practical knowledge may be able to hold their own. Each art has their pros and cons, but I think it would be mad to say for definite that either the BJJ practitioner or the karateka would win.

 

By the way, for those of you with paper thin skins, this is not meant to knock anyone else's art in any way. There's no need to start getting uptight or upset. And for those that seem to see the need: THIS IS MY OPINION!

[White Warlock]

Ugh, made a post and lost it. Ah well, i'll try again.

First of all I think we have to bear in mind that you are talking about a trained karateka and a trained wrestler here. Therefore you would hope that the karateka could snap out a low kick, or a punch before the wrestler gets the chance to grab.

 

When we're talking about a wrestler, i'm assuming we're talking about a greco-roman or freestyle wrestler. A bjjer is not a wrestler, any more than a freestyle wrestler is a ju-jutsu practitioner.

 

Since this was posted in the karate section of the forums, i'll assume the defender is a karate practitioner.

 

The weakness of wrestlers is that they do not practice defenses against strikes or kicks and they are limited in finishing techniques. Unceasingly peppering the wrestler with strikes and quick kicks (snap kicks, etc) will take the wrestler completely out of his game. In most cases, it will either cause the wrestler to go on full defense (totally useless, since they don't have any defense against strikes) or cause them to get desperate and rush in for a grab.

 

If the wrestler rushes in for a grab, the karate practitioner would do well to maintain peppering him with strikes, while side-back stepping, keeping a comfortable distance (arm's length). If, however, the wrestler effects a grab, he'll immediately attempt a takedown, and succeed.

 

The mistake a karate practitioner could do on the ground, is to panic. The strength of a wrestler is on the ground, but it is in the form of domination and intimidation. Since a wrestler has few finishing holds (many have none whatsoever), he'll be attempting to smother you, drag you across the floor, or squeeze you like a pimple.

 

Just keep a level head, and take every opportunity to strike, elbow and knee him, as well as looking to see if the wrestler foolishly leaves a finger for you to break (a big mistake with wrestlers, btw). Keep in mind that since you're on the ground, as long as you keep striking the wrestler, you'll keep him out of his game. Also keep in mind that the fight has now turned into a battle of staminas. Adjust your breathing and energy output to the fact you are now on the bottom of a heavy dude (or dudette). As i mentioned earlier, he'll be trying to smother you... so just maintain your breathing rhythm and don't panic. Eventually you'll either get in a good finger break, you'll wear him out with those annoying punches, or he'll wear himself out just trying to hold you.

 

Now, if the wrestler knows finishing holds, then you're in trouble. You'll need to keep your strikes tighter, avoid extending any limbs (legs or arms), stay with your back to the floor, and take the first opportunity to get off the ground (but don't get suckered into turning your back to the wrestler in order to escape, or you're screwed).

 

My best recommendation, would be to learn how to wrestle. This recommendation actually applies to all situations. The greatest advantage anyone can have, is surprise. If you don't recognize what they're doing, you're at a disadvantage. They could trick you, or catch you completely unprepared. This is my main argument 'for' studying multiple martial arts. Removing the element of surprise.

[AngelaG]

When we're talking about a wrestler, i'm assuming we're talking about a greco-roman or freestyle wrestler. A bjjer is not a wrestler, any more than a freestyle wrestler is a ju-jutsu practitioner.

 

.

 

Yeah I know I swapped between wrestlers and BJJers but that was because the OP was about wrestlers but other people started going on about BJJ to me - so I was covering all bases

[SevenStar]

I'm about to go to work, so I can't respond to your post now, but it looks like ww covered alot of it. However, the double leg take down IS a greco roman technique, as is the sprawl. I didn't "go bjj on you", you're just not up on all of your grappling techniques and terminology.

[AngelaG]

I'm about to go to work, so I can't respond to your post now, but it looks like ww covered alot of it. However, the double leg take down IS a greco roman technique, as is the sprawl. I didn't "go bjj on you", you're just not up on all of your grappling techniques and terminology.

 

Why woul I be? I do karate? I'm up on all that terminology if it helps!

[SevenStar]

that's exactly my point. you're giving advice on something you're not completely clear on. a wrestler and a bjj guy have some similar tactics, but don't completely share the same arsenal. So, you may be thinking of what you would do to defend against something, but have it all wrong because you are actually talking about something different.

[Drunken Monkey]

........just wanna chime in and add my forever worthless tupence.

 

angela and myself are in the uk.

 

in the uk, you are as likely to come across someone who has any ounce of wrestling skills as you are likely to come across an effective wing chun guy...... or something like that....

 

my point is, we don't have anything that even resembles the wrestling culture that you guys do in the US.

 

i'm not sure how widespread the highschool wrestling programs are or popular they are

 

but i do know the only wrestling the people here know about, is either the US pro wrestling or the even less believeable uk pro wrestling.....

[SevenStar]

The weakness of wrestlers is that they do not practice defenses against strikes or kicks and they are limited in finishing techniques. Unceasingly peppering the wrestler with strikes and quick kicks (snap kicks, etc) will take the wrestler completely out of his game. In most cases, it will either cause the wrestler to go on full defense (totally useless, since they don't have any defense against strikes) or cause them to get desperate and rush in for a grab.

 

That's what I was addressing above - he won't mind covering up and taking a few shots as long as his goal is accomplished. In addition to striking, you would have to be very mobile. But, IMO, you don't want to just side-back step as you stated in the next paragraph - you want to circle as well. He wants you going back anyway - he's driving forward, and you have less power while going back.

 

 

The mistake a karate practitioner could do on the ground, is to panic. The strength of a wrestler is on the ground, but it is in the form of domination and intimidation. Since a wrestler has few finishing holds (many have none whatsoever), he'll be attempting to smother you, drag you across the floor, or squeeze you like a pimple.

 

true. There are several wrestling holds that do hurt though - the grapevine and crucifix come to mind. He could cross face you to death as well.

Keep in mind that since you're on the ground, as long as you keep striking the wrestler, you'll keep him out of his game.

 

That is easier said then done while you are being smothered, however.

Now, if the wrestler knows finishing holds, then you're in trouble. You'll need to keep your strikes tighter, avoid extending any limbs (legs or arms), stay with your back to the floor, and take the first opportunity to get off the ground (but don't get suckered into turning your back to the wrestler in order to escape, or you're screwed).

 

My best recommendation, would be to learn how to wrestle. This recommendation actually applies to all situations. The greatest advantage anyone can have, is surprise. If you don't recognize what they're doing, you're at a disadvantage. They could trick you, or catch you completely unprepared. This is my main argument 'for' studying multiple martial arts. Removing the element of surprise.

 

agreed.

[SevenStar]

........just wanna chime in and add my forever worthless tupence.

 

angela and myself are in the uk.

 

in the uk, you are as likely to come across someone who has any ounce of wrestling skills as you are likely to come across an effective wing chun guy...... or something like that....

 

my point is, we don't have anything that even resembles the wrestling culture that you guys do in the US.

 

i'm not sure how widespread the highschool wrestling programs are or popular they are

 

but i do know the only wrestling the people here know about, is either the US pro wrestling or the even less believeable uk pro wrestling.....

 

what about the grappling scene as a whole - bjj, judo, etc. included?

[P.A.L]

Actually, that shows a complete lack of respect. If you are going to be rude and dismissive I am not even going to bother to dignify that with a constructed debate.

 

AngelaG, I apologize, I was going to reply to your post and I had the page open but I got busy and I guess one of my friends been playing around with my laptop. I just saw the post this morning .although I am disagree but those are not my words. I can assure you, he will suffer.