What do you think?

[dippedappe]

Master Jules.....Sorry to hear that. Do you only do Japanese martial arts?

[Logan]

I am saddened by the western influence of MA. Why do we as americans feel we have to take everything we encounter and "improve" on it. MA was in place a thousand years before our nation existed. It has remained because of time honored 'traditions', such as Honor, Humility, Respect, Responsibility, and Discipline. I have seen dojos where the members do not bow in and out. They say they can respect something without showing it every single time. Why wouldn't you SHOW respect every single time? I have visited many different dojos in my travels and the one thing I see lacking most is discipline. Which I feel is indicative of our society as a whole. I believe it has spilled over in virtually everything we do from overeating to financial problems. I had always felt MA was a sanctuary from the evils of american over-indulgence, but it seems the trend is infecting it as well. Just ask young MA and they will tell you MA is about Kicking A**.

[jarrettmeyer]

It infects as much as you let it. People respond to good and bad actions alike. The good news is that WE are the antidote. From what I've read during my short time here, the regularly posting members of karateforums.com would make up one heck of a dojo.

 

My dojo is great. Not bowing on or off is a great way to buy yourself some pushups. The students, children and adult alike, are very respectful. "Thank you, sir." "Thank you, ma'am." Students are very supportive of eachother.

 

This has been a rough week, because sensai has been with his sensai, so the black and brown belts have been teaching. My sensai pushes me as hard as I need to be pushed. The other students push me as hard as I want to be pushed. If I ask them for a break, the answer is, "Relax. Get some water." If I ask sensai for a break, the answer is, "Are you sure?" And I know the answer to it. There's nothing that he can do to me in one-hour that I can't handle.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Well, let's see how I should answer this...

 

I have a complex way of answering this sort of question.

 

Taking a look at martial arts traditions in Japan, the whole concept of added spirituality and moral character development was never the main focus, or even a big focus. The introduction of zen into Japanese martial traditions was at first seen as a helpful tool rather than the main focus. Later on, it took on an enlarged role, especially the less that samurai were actually employed in fighting. In more modern times, this aspect of spiritualism has taken a role that is so large, it is sometimes even in detriment to the actual useful combative applications of the art itself. Especially after WWII, this has become an even bigger part.

 

Looking at Okinawan karate, it is much of the same thing. Traditional "karate" (I put it in quotes since that term is less than 100 years old, anyway), was always focused more upon pure fighting techniques, applications, and concepts. This isn't to say that people in the traditional karate lineage like Sakugawa and Matsumura were not well-balanced gentlemen. In fact, they really advocated humility, honesty and a good moral character. If I understood the Japanese of Masaru Yonamine (one of two 9th dans in my style) last weekend, he said that the first direct reference to the art of "te" in 1663, went like this: "No matter how you may excel in the art of te, and in your scholastic endeavors, nothing is more important than your behavior and your humility as observed in daily life." (Okay, so I cheated and found a translation of this elsewhere later, but only because it sounded better than the translation I had in my head, and Yonamine-Sensei did tell me about it)

 

Perhaps what I am trying to say is that maybe to many people who are Westerners, and indeed, Asians who are sloughing off traditions of the past, the traditions of humility and respect seem somewhat limited to the realm of the martial arts, in this context. However, I would argue that back in those days, it was permeated throughout the society, so it wasn't necessarily promoted specifically through the medium of martial arts, but rather that many martial arts masters had those qualities and wanted their students to have them as well. But it wasn't the main focus of their training, nor was it always a direct result of it.

 

I do believe that self-control was probably something teachers wanted their students to have. But they usually didn't even teach those who they felt had no self-control, rather than instilling self-control in them. Not that they never did, but it was more often the case that they refused "wild" students, unless a friend or someone recommended them.

 

But, I could go on and on.

 

As for me, I've always held the values of humility, disciplin, self-control and respect in high regard. I think the dojo is a good place for some people to learn them. But, I don't think that should ever be at the detriment of martial training. All the same, I agree with Teikunsoku that even if you are an excellent martial artist, it is useless if you don't have a good character.

[Master Jules]

DD......I practice Okinawan, Japanese, and American systems.

[gojuchad]

hello lyds, I am from a real traditional karate school I have allways been a martial art dork (ha ha) so I ate up all of the old traditional ways. But i do think that there is something to be learned by them. First rule is humility and respect, the two go hand in hand. You have to be willing to admit that your wrong. Now I could go into all the traditional ways of training but I think that the Way that they teach is of most importance, it shapes the students as good people outside the dojo.

[ps1]

I enjoy the saho of the two japanese systems (Karate-shotokan, and aiki jujitsu) I teach, for the peacefulness, and respect it brings forth.

 

At the same time I enjoy the tradition of no tradition and total relaxation between student and teacher that are present when i am learning BJJ. For example, it's nothing for a white belt to walk into the academy and say "Tony, I hope you're ready for me to kick your a$$ today!" It's just expected. The Gracie family believes the dicipline and determination should come from within, not from the instructor. Not so totally different from the beliefs of many classical systems.