Do you consider Pro Wrestling a martial art?

[Rich67]

I think this whole thing has been read into too much. I also think that the true definition of martial art is being skewed. Martial arts were originally developed as a form of unarmed combat in the orient as well as countires like Egypt and India.

 

To quote:

 

"Martial Arts: studies, styles, or systems relating to the ways of fighting or war. "

 

Additionally, the term "martial" not only means a manner of warfare, but also means the mentality of the warrior him/herself. Therefore, the learning of a true martial art, means a style of fighting accompanied by the martial mentality (defense is a good offense, but defend honor above all costs).

 

That's the basic definition of what an MA is. Let's look at PRO WRESTLING. Not Greco-Roman or the other TRUE wrestling ARTS. Although pro (WWE, etc. ad nauseum) wrestling uses moves and techniques found in real wrestling, PRO wrestling is NOT a martial art. It does not teach the discipline associated with MA's nor does it teach the philosophy and belief system. Some may argue that "Mc Dojo's" don't either...but I disagree. Most of the MA's taught in dojo environments stress self-defense and stress self-confidence, restraint and respect for others. They may not come right out and give a speech about it, but things like removing shoes whilst on the mat, bowing to people, etc. all teach this basic philosophy. What does PRO wrestling teach? Stunts and execution of moves, and over-the-top acting to develop stories and roles. Then the "actors" go on camera and stage and taunt, ridicule, and strut their steroid inflammed bodies around the ring. To call that a martial art is an insult to martial arts! To say that simply because the moves they use could be interpreted as viable fighting moves is a moot point. As a previous poster stated, do you consider tennis an MA if someone uses a racket to bash someone? Or baseball is becuase you use the bat to render someone to a bloody pulp? No. A true martial art stresses self defense, techniques rooted deep in history and philosophies developed for centuries. Pro wrestling is ENTERTAINMENT. Nothing more, nothing less. The pro wrestler, however, who looks deeper into the facet of what he is doing off the mat, is considered a martial artist (take Shamrock, who had the MA background first). But when the tape is rollin', the guys slamming people on stage are not practicing a martial art. This whole thing was about "IS PRO WRESTLING A MARTIAL ART"? Not "are pro wrestlers martial artists". We are talking about pro wrestling as a genre. And as a genre, it is ENTERTAINMENT.

[Logan]

So a pro-wrestler, whom trains in the many methods of physical conflict, cannot be considered a martial artist or practicing a martial art?

 

I guess the true test would be how practical their techniques are outside of TV land.

 

*shrugs*

 

IMO, no it's not an MA, but a sport (and I use sport loosely). I think pro-wrestling lacks depth of technique, practicality, philosophy and the discipline to be a true MA. I see a true MA as a search for harmonizing mind and body... these guys come off as crush/kill/destroy in a steroid rage for no other reason than TV ratings.

 

If you put these guys up against a true MA, they wouldn't last, IMO. They're big and intimidating... but it's not the size that matters... oh, wait... that's something else.

 

 

What's your definition of a true MA?

[47MartialMan]

"And as a genre, it is ENTERTAINMENT."

 

So I guess boxing, MT, point MA tourneys, Shaolin Monks in a show, are not martial arts or martial artists?

 

"Martial Arts: studies, styles, or systems relating to the ways of fighting or war. "

 

By this definition, then it existed before any philosophy.

 

"It does not teach the discipline associated with MA's nor does it teach the philosophy and belief system."

 

Sure they have a discipline, a mentality to train. What if a pro wrestler retired, formed his own martial arts system, and taught his moves based on his wrestling methods and training? Now that he no longer "entertains", he has a martial art and is a martial artist?

 

Are you saying the difference is philosophy, discipline, belief system, and ENTERTAINMENT?

 

Martial arts were originally developed as a form of unarmed combat in the orient as well as countires like Egypt and India.

 

Part true, but since war is with the result of weapons, then unarmed is totally accurate. And, what about other cultures and countries that had their warriors and methods?

[Rich67]

"And as a genre, it is ENTERTAINMENT."

 

So I guess boxing, MT, point MA tourneys, Shaolin Monks in a show, are not martial arts or martial artists?

 

Where did you get THAT from? I don't understand how you construed me referring to televised Pro wrestling, which is choreographed purely for television and is completely ridiculous and phony- was the same as KOTC events, boxing matches, etc.? There is a difference in DEMONSTRATING your MA skill for entertainment purposes and being an entertainer. So you're saying that Ralph "The Karate Kid" Macchio is a martial artist and not an actor? Let's not read into this too deep, here. We're talking about pro wrestling, nothing more.

 

"Martial Arts: studies, styles, or systems relating to the ways of fighting or war. "

 

By this definition, then it existed before any philosophy.

 

That is only part of the definition that I felt was necessary to convey my belief and state my argument. What would your definition of MA be?

 

"It does not teach the discipline associated with MA's nor does it teach the philosophy and belief system."

 

Sure they have a discipline, a mentality to train. What if a pro wrestler retired, formed his own martial arts system, and taught his moves based on his wrestling methods and training? Now that he no longer "entertains", he has a martial art and is a martial artist?

 

You are misunderstanding the meaning I was trying to convey about "discipline". A discipline can mean a "way of thinking" or a system of core beliefs that one follows. For instance, if I was a motorcycle racer, the training I went through to keep my edge would be my "discipline". But I see your point.

 

Are you saying the difference is philosophy, discipline, belief system, and ENTERTAINMENT?

 

 

 

Not at all. I am not trying to make this a difficult topic here. Let me simplify:

PRO WRESTLING (the televised and redneck loved variety) IS NOT REAL. It is a system of moves that was developed purely for show and entertainment purposes. Granted, some moves are rooted in martial arts, but PRO WRESTLING, as a whole, cannot be classified as a martial art. The moves are derivitaves thereof. It teaches no philosophy other than acting and choreographed moves, much like dancers and actors. Those people ARE NOT MARTIAL ARTISTS. Now to answer your question, if the wrestler left WWE and formed his own "martial art" would he now be classified as a martial artist? That depends. Is he teaching people how to be pro wrestlers? If so, then NO. Or is he teaching someone the art of combat so one may use it as self defense? If so, then POSSIBLY. I may be biased, since I find pro wrestling a complete joke. But that's my OPINION. You have some good points, and I see your position. But I think it all lies in what you (in your heart) feel truly defines a martial art. No book or dictionary can define it for you--it has to be something you feel. On that note, I will now avoid this post like the plague and refuse to voice my opinion any further.

[47MartialMan]

Nice post/reply Rich67. I was posting a "devil's advocate", a debate that I always have with "Pro Wrestling" (ugh-misnomer) fans. They always debate me as it being a martial art because there exists "fighting".

 

Thank you for your patience and imput.

[Logan]

For goodness sakes?! Some wrestlers are MA's, but not all wrestlers are MA's. Just like some Cats are Lions. But as Professional Wrestling as a whole a MA. Negative.

 

Unless someone is willing to concede this: I was watching a lumberjack competition the other day, and one of the guys chopped a tree in half with an axe, another, ran across a pond on floating logs. Still another climbed a pole to the top. The Axe guy obviously could kill with his axe, the log guy showd extreme balance and focus, and the pole guy had extreme agility. Is this a new MA?

[Rich67]

Nice post/reply Rich67. I was posting a "devil's advocate", a debate that I always have with "Pro Wrestling" (ugh-misnomer) fans. They always debate me as it being a martial art because there exists "fighting".

 

Thank you for your patience and imput.

 

I always enjoy a good debate...no problem.

[PrideampPoise]

Pro wrestlers are stuntmen who perform live shows.

[47MartialMan]

I think Rich67 summed it within about 3 posts.

 

Rich-may I copy and quote you when I speak to these "Pro" wrestling fans?

[Kreisi]

I dont think so

 

it doesnt look like martial art to me