Most comprehensive close up fighting art

[judoguy]

Oh and by the way there are some excellent styles of Kung fu out there. Shuai chiao, Bajiquan and hun gar being the best IMO. Only because I have seen these styles actually work against a resisting opponent. Other styles like wing chun or choy li fut I have never seen work under any circumstance.

[White Warlock]

Other styles like wing chun or choy li fut I have never seen work under any circumstance.

i'm not sure i understand your comment. You've never seen them applied, or never seen them work when applied?

[SevenStar]

SevenStar, I was going to rebut to your arguments concerning my first post, but warlock has said it with this post.

 

There is nothing to rebut. fighting is based on principles, and you don't need a wide variety of techniques to encompass them all. there are several techniques that can accomodate a single principle. It's a matter of the stylist's preference. THIS is where "creativiy" comes in - it's a byproduct, as I said in response to someone else.

 

 

 

As for having more efficient ways to train the body than MAs, I don't disagree and I do utilize those more efficient methods like running and weight training, but I still don't get those motions and positions down that might be necessary in a fight from running or weight training like hook kicks, and spin kicks, and angular attacks which can at least be great fients and setups for other, more straight forward attacks, or can be used to keep an opponent back and at bay while you regain your compsure and/or balance.

 

spinning kicks are a balance issue. a hook kick is a flexibility issue. Naturally, if you are going to do a hook kick, the best way to get better at that kick is to practice it. But, as I stated, that's not a strength issue.

 

Like I said before, I can go on finding uses for even those most, seemingly, useless techniques.

 

I can find a use for pocket lint. That doesn't make it useful...Not only that, but what may have been useful then may not be useful now. For example, a butterfly kick. One application of it was to provide a means for evading a weapon swung low while simultaneously allowing you to advance on your opponent. It's highly unlikely that you will run into someone swinging a staff or sword at your feet - there's really no need for butterfly kicking over it. You can try to use it to back up an opponent, but how efficient is that?

 

but, as I said in a previous post, what is useless is relative, as we each have our own preferences.

 

 

[SevenStar]

Well SevenStar you are the one that has beening say that longfist is full of crap and I do agree with you.

 

you need to read a little better - I never said longfist was crap.

 

Longfist is not a fighting art but rather a basic for more advance martial art styles.

 

If you believe you can't fight with longfist, then we need to talk. If you ever travel to my neck of the woods, I will gladly introduce you to people willing to prove you wrong.

 

Baji Quan on the other hand is a fighting art and has no value in performance. If there is really someone skilled enough in longfist and beat my Baji Quan, I will actually happy to see that as that proves all your style bashing are craps and Longfist is not as useless as you said.

 

learn to read... I said styles have useless techniques. I never said any particular style was useless. Heck, I used to train longfist, so why would I say that?

 

Oh by the way, I never said that Baji Quan is the more "advance style", in fact Baji Quan is also a building block for another "advance style". But the good thing about Baji Quan is you can stay with it and become a good fighter while you can never be a great fighter if you stick with Longfist or Wushu.

 

no, you didn't say more advanced - you said higher level. But, that implies the same thing, no? you've only been training baji for like two months though, so I'm not even sure why I'm wasting my time...

 

 

[SevenStar]

What most people mean when they say kung fu has alot of useless stuff is that the training in most of the styles focuses much too heavily on theatrics. One guy in a previous post said that a instructor made someone he knew do stances for 4 years before teaching him anything related to combat. That is ridiculously silly. A lot of kung fu styles are superfluous in the since that you spend too much time on things that don't even remotely resemble combat such as lion dancing and the like.

 

A thai boxer, western boxer, kyokushin, BJJ , or judo practitioner spend more time developing the timing, power, accuracy, and principals needed to thrive in a live combat situation. Some people make the argument that martial arts are not just about fighting which is true.They are about developing mental and spiritual character though hard work and hard contact. But let us not forget that combat is the essential part of martial arts and if you loose that focus then they become less martial and more art.

 

good post.

[White Warlock]

Thanks for quoting it. Judoguy's post following that one lost me so, that i lost the message provided in this post. Agreed, good post.

[SevenStar]

Drunken Monkey, the long fist I mentioned above is just the style called "long fist" which I believe is a part of Wushu not a combat art. I think some of the long fist type style like Cha Quan, Ba Shan Fan and Pao Quan are great and really effective.

 

Those fancy southern style I mentioned is Nan Quan, not the Nan Quan type but the style called Nan Quan. I am not so sure about the effectiveness of Hung Gar through, maybe you can tell me a little about that.

 

quick lesson... all northern kung fu is generically termed longfist. This includes the islamic styles as well. southern styles are typically short fist methods. If you've seen northern kung fu, you know why it's called longfist. all longfist is NOT modern wushu, however, modern wushu incorporates alot of longfist movements because they are long. alot or northern styles use long positions, high kicks, etc., however that's not all they use. cha quan, hong quan, tai tzu, etc. is all longfist. There is, however a southern system of tai tzu also.

 

as for nan quan, it merely refers to southern kungfu and that's wushu as well - nan quan is admitted in wushu tournies.

[dingyuan]

Hey SevenStar, I had train in Longfist too and those Wushu longfist are really full of crap and that's that there is no need to insult anyone ok? Nobody is wasting anytime on anyone we're cool are we?

 

Yes I had only train in Baji Quan for two month from a teacher that takes away the time I study it by myself and read books about it. In some school around Vancouver, Baji Quan was use as a building block to train more advance style like Xing Yi and Bagua, you can check with that if you prefer.

 

One more thing, Long fist type style are not crap as I said, I have great respect for Long fist styles like Cha Quan, Hua Quan, Pao Quan and Ba Shan Fan. From the view of a combat art Wushu Longfist is useless just like Nan Quan and other Wushu style.

 

You're right I don't really know much that is why I am here to learn from you guys if I said anything that is wrong you are very welcome to correct me and please don't look down at me because you think I am just a newbie thanks.

[dingyuan]

Here's something about wushu Chang Quan

 

http://www.gaopu.com/KA/nyumon.html

[dingyuan]

What most people mean when they say kung fu has alot of useless stuff is that the training in most of the styles focuses much too heavily on theatrics. One guy in a previous post said that a instructor made someone he knew do stances for 4 years before teaching him anything related to combat. That is ridiculously silly. A lot of kung fu styles are superfluous in the since that you spend too much time on things that don't even remotely resemble combat such as lion dancing and the like.

 

A thai boxer, western boxer, kyokushin, BJJ , or judo practitioner spend more time developing the timing, power, accuracy, and principals needed to thrive in a live combat situation. Some people make the argument that martial arts are not just about fighting which is true.They are about developing mental and spiritual character though hard work and hard contact. But let us not forget that combat is the essential part of martial arts and if you loose that focus then they become less martial and more art.

 

Hi judoguy

 

I am sorry that I didn't state my sentence clearly. My master grew up in a martial art school in China, they train everyday and martial art is the only thing they learn. He had to study many different forms and had been there for almost 30 years. Xing Yi was just part of his training and while his Xing Yi instructor made him to stay in the stance for 4 years in order to make him ready, he was learning some other style the same time. It as just to prepare him to what was going to come next. This is as clear as I can state it, if you still think it's silly and crap, then I have nothing more to say.