Most comprehensive close up fighting art

[Ottman]

Being exposed to a variety of techniques allows one to have a larger base for being able to adlib, or adjust to awkward situations that may eventually occur in a confrontation. Having said this, it is important to develop a high degree of skill with a small repertoire of actions. These will be your primary tools, but they should not be your 'only' tools.

 

SevenStar, I was going to rebut to your arguments concerning my first post, but warlock has said it with this post.

 

As for having more efficient ways to train the body than MAs, I don't disagree and I do utilize those more efficient methods like running and weight training, but I still don't get those motions and positions down that might be necessary in a fight from running or weight training like hook kicks, and spin kicks, and angular attacks which can at least be great fients and setups for other, more straight forward attacks, or can be used to keep an opponent back and at bay while you regain your compsure and/or balance. Like I said before, I can go on finding uses for even those most, seemingly, useless techniques.

[dingyuan]

Well SevenStar you are the one that has beening say that longfist is full of crap and I do agree with you. Longfist is not a fighting art but rather a basic for more advance martial art styles. Baji Quan on the other hand is a fighting art and has no value in performance. If there is really someone skilled enough in longfist and beat my Baji Quan, I will actually happy to see that as that proves all your style bashing are craps and Longfist is not as useless as you said.

 

Oh by the way, I never said that Baji Quan is the more "advance style", in fact Baji Quan is also a building block for another "advance style". But the good thing about Baji Quan is you can stay with it and become a good fighter while you can never be a great fighter if you stick with Longfist or Wushu.

[Tiger12334]

"advance chinese style"? yeah rite, all of them seems trash to me give me a break kungfu players and stay away from the ring if ya know whats good for you.

[White Warlock]

Okay, i need to step in again. Tiger, please.

 

Chinese studies, unfortunately, do present things in a far more convoluted fashion. It takes quite a bit of time to obtain 'mastery' in Chinese styles, mainly because they place a helluva lot more time and energy into studying the foundations, before stepping to the next level of study, and then the next. Many, but not all, Chinese styles do tend to be broken up into three sets of study... basic, intermediate, and advanced.

 

Many Chinese styles, as i mentioned in another post ages ago, have a whole series of 'tricks' and 'show' as a means to obtain sponsorship. A remnant of a bygone era that has now found a home onscreen. However, to assume this is the totality of an art, or to assume that the effectiveness of an art is somehow disrupted by these 'tricks' and 'show,' is to assume the exception is the norm.

 

There will always be those Mcdojo instructors who studied only the basics of a system, and then tout it as the totality of a system, as is... unfortunately, the case with many Chinese systems nowadays. However, to label Chinese systems as ineffective, or insufficient, based on the corruptions of the financially motivated few (that also unfortunately end up dominating the marketplace)... is fundamentally unjust.

 

The thing is, in our day and age, the ways and means of teaching Chinese styles is causing Chinese styles to be fractured. A lot of impatient Western practitioners are getting their 2 to 6 years of training and saying, "okay, i know this system. Now let's make a buck." The problem with this approach is that the vast majority of Chinese styles are taught with the assumption the students will remain students for 'decades,' and thus not all that can be taught... is taught... within a 2-6 year span.

 

Now... having said this, i think it is critical, for the future of Chinese styles, that this 'assumption' end, and that the totality of a system be presented to students within a 6 to 10 year period, lest we continue with the fracturing and dilution of Chinese martial art styles, until all that is left... is show.

[Drunken Monkey]

"Longfist is not a fighting art but rather a basic for more advance martial art styles"

 

er... depends on what you mean by long fist.

 

longfist IS a style as well as being a name to refer to a type of style.

 

"One piece of advice is try to avoid Southern styles other than Wing Chun or Choy Lay Fut "

 

so what other southern styles can you name?

 

or should that be, what 'fancy' southern styles are there?

 

yo warlock...

 

"not all that can be taught... is taught... within a 2-6 year span"

 

depends on the style/school.

 

i know a man that would kick you out of the school if you weren't good in three years....

 

i'm sure i've said this before, but i could 'teach' you to do the three hand forms in about a month.

 

i could probably show you the basic applications of the movements in another three.

 

but then comes years of practice and this is the bit that the teacher can't control.

 

how hard and how much you practice is up to you.

 

the kung fu teachers here, there are a few exceptions of course, tend to be quite realistic/open in their training and there isn't much that they wouldn't show you.

 

the real problem here is that often, it isn't the teaching that is slow per se, it's how hard the students work,

 

or more specifically, DON'T work.

 

after all, there's no point in showing you things from later teachings if you haven't even been practicing the basics.

 

the chinese way of teaching assumes that you do nothing else.

 

the old ways involved moving into the school and becoming a part of the family

 

(unless you were rich but that's another story...).

 

you lived and breathed training.

 

you used to have to go and asked to be accepted.

 

these days, you go a two hour class twice a week.

[dingyuan]

Drunken Monkey, the long fist I mentioned above is just the style called "long fist" which I believe is a part of Wushu not a combat art. I think some of the long fist type style like Cha Quan, Ba Shan Fan and Pao Quan are great and really effective.

 

Those fancy southern style I mentioned is Nan Quan, not the Nan Quan type but the style called Nan Quan. I am not so sure about the effectiveness of Hung Gar through, maybe you can tell me a little about that.

[Drunken Monkey]

"the long fist I mentioned above is just the style called "long fist" "

 

err..... the style called longfist was one of the original styles taught to the ancient chinese armies.

 

longfist, both the style/forms and family of martial arts are one of the oldest chinese styles.

 

so, it is/was a fighting art......

 

"Those fancy southern style I mentioned is Nan Quan, not the Nan Quan type but the style called Nan Quan"

 

i don't know of a style called Nan Quan.

 

um, you do know that Nan Quan means 'southern fist', right?

 

and is used to refer to southern styles.

 

anyway.

 

so, um, after all that, you can only name ONE southern style that is overly fancy and it is one that i haven't heard of.

 

no offence but your choice of words.

 

"i believe"

 

"i am not so sure"

 

"i think"

 

you don't seem to be very confident about what you are saying.

 

very um, defensive.......

 

so, what's your experience with the things you mention?

[dingyuan]

Hey Drunken Monkey

 

I am really not so sure because I don't believe that I can know everything so whatever I mention below will be from my point of view.

 

The longfist you mentioned is called "Tai Zu" long fist, yes it is one of the oldest type of Chinese style and it is from Tai Zu that came many other long fist styles like Cha Quan and others. Well ,the longfist I mention is a style called "longfist" which was created for Wushu. It just combine all the beautiful moves of all different kinds of different longfist style and use them as a kind of Wushu performce, it is good for building your basics but has no combat value like other types of Wushu. I learned longfist when I was in primary school when I was like 7 or 8.

 

Yes Nan Quan does means Southern Fist and it is just like long fist which is a Wushu version of Southern Fist with a combo moves of Hung Gar, Choy Lee Fut and other Southern family styles. The moves are all those beautiful and ineffective moves you can find in those Southern style.

 

What I really mean is that if someone told you he's learning longfist or Nan Quan as a style, it means they are really learn Wushu while not really a combat art. If you know that I maybe wrong anywhere you are very welcome to correct me, that is the only way I can learn more about everything, thank you very much.

[judoguy]

Muay thai or boxing. Judo or shuai chiao are good too.

[judoguy]

What most people mean when they say kung fu has alot of useless stuff is that the training in most of the styles focuses much too heavily on theatrics. One guy in a previous post said that a instructor made someone he knew do stances for 4 years before teaching him anything related to combat. That is ridiculously silly. A lot of kung fu styles are superfluous in the since that you spend too much time on things that don't even remotely resemble combat such as lion dancing and the like.

 

A thai boxer, western boxer, kyokushin, BJJ , or judo practitioner spend more time developing the timing, power, accuracy, and principals needed to thrive in a live combat situation. Some people make the argument that martial arts are not just about fighting which is true.They are about developing mental and spiritual character though hard work and hard contact. But let us not forget that combat is the essential part of martial arts and if you loose that focus then they become less martial and more art.