Most comprehensive close up fighting art

[judoguy]

Okay, so as I suspected from the start the problem here is a taking the theory and drills of training and making them work in the chaos of a real fight.

 

I'd agree the only way to really deal with this is as much hands on experience as possible, and like I said probably out side of Wing Chun.

 

I'm looking forward to the challenges of my training in the future. My Sifu clearly loves what he's teaching us, you can see the glint in his eye when we really nail techniques and he speaks enthusiastically of what he calls the 'dirty' side of using Wing Chun, really applying it in messy, hands on way. He is also a big exponent of the simple is better approach.

 

I'll certainly be posting on the forums about this process and how effective and realistic I find them, in the mean time, I wonder if anyone has experience of successful Kung Fu training and application that they can share (without being hysterical )

 

As for leaving out a lot and fighting with what works, I expect and hope this will be the case

 

I'll give you a wing chun example of what I mean by unatural movements. Let's take grandmaster Leung Tings style of wing tsun. His is considered to be the most hardcore of all variations of WC. Yet as hardcore as it is it contains no blocking and no backing up, the theory being if you have to back up you might as well turn and run away. Ok, sounds good... show me that in the streets. The system limits itself to forward and side to side angles of attack but no backing up? What happens if the guy bullsrushes you, or you trip over something and fall on your *?

 

In the chaos of real fighting it is ridiculous to adhere to such an assenine statement. In a real fight you must be able to do whatever you need to do to survive, including backing up to give yourself some space if need be. No blocking, Are you nuts? Why is trapping allowed but not locking? Why do we do chi sao but no full speed trapping? It makes no sense and yet people do it without questioning it everyday. Why can't a trap become a lock? These are the types of questions you need to ask when you are training WC next time.

 

It takes me back to my statement that WC is a martial art with sound theories but horrible training methods. But as with most generalizations, YEMV (your experience may vary)

[Treebranch]

Well maybe the grappling arts are different I guess which is good.

[Nick_UKWC]

Yet as hardcore as it is it contains no blocking and no backing up, the theory being if you have to back up you might as well turn and run away. Ok, sounds good... show me that in the streets.

 

Doesn't sound very hardcore, sounds a bit pig headed and stupid to be honest. Hasn't been my experience either, but then I don't train with them.

[daedelus4]

Unfortunately, some people here have not seen wing chun used effectively. I have. In fact, I have had occaision to use it. I think that if you saw it used ineffectively it is not because the style is inferior--oh, and btw, MT is an excellent art, I do not wish to take anything away from it but, best stiking? hardly. At any rate, back to my original post, I think the major difference in my experience with wing chun and others experience may be in the lack of training. WC is a deceptively easy style to gain knowledge in. I say deceptively so because there are quite a few principles that cannot be seperated from the actual techniques. Add this to a serious lack of training (i.e, dail, not weekly or multi-weekly) and any style will be incomplete even if all of the techniques are known. The difference between styles I have found, and this is merely my personal opinion, is the training.

Simply put, in order to be effective in any art--you MUST practice as if your life depends on it even if you only use your art in a streetfight once in your lifetime, you MUST spar--preferably with enough protection so that you can go all out and refine your technique, and you MUST be physically fit.

[daedelus4]

Lueng ting most hardcore of all WC instructors? Hardly. Check out emin Boztep, Randy Williams or William Chueng and there training methods. I am familiar with Lueng ting's style but would hardly consider him to be the proponent of the most hardcore version of WC.

"Yet as hardcore as it is it contains no blocking and no backing up, the theory being if you have to back up you might as well turn and run away. Ok, sounds good... show me that in the streets. The system limits itself to forward and side to side angles of attack but no backing up? What happens if the guy bullsrushes you, or you trip over something and fall on your *? "

On the contrary, WC has many blocks and although the backstepping is limited, a real fight does not always require you to back up. Particularly when you require little room to generate the full power of your technique. Perhaps, your WC instructor did not teach many real life, full speed chi sao or trapping but every school I have had opportunity to visit sparred often at real life speed, in fact trapping is much easier at real life speeds rather than in slow training because it becomes more of a jolt to your opponent when he realizes his technique has been stopped only after he has been hit 3 or 4 times, and the reason trapping is done as opposed to locking is because WC is not a grappling art. For that you want jujitsu or some other useful grappling technique--which by the way I reccomend to all WC practitioners, including my own students.

What happens if the guy bullsrushes you, or you trip over something and fall on your *? "

Simple--move, if you can, it is the tao of common sense! whether that be in a side step or at an angle, I am sure you can see that either would be better than backing up as the guy rushing you will thank you for giving him more room to pummel you with. Wc weakness is the nonexistence of grappling techniques but heres a hypoothetical question, if a person rushes another person and the rushee we will call him side steps after the rush-er has grabbed him, who will land on top more times than not? this is just a hypo to be pondered w/o the use of knowledge any martial art, simply gravity, centrifugal force, and possibly inertia.

And that was my 2cents.