KungFuMan Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 I believe as a martial art karate (and kung fu for that matter) is far more superior to boxing. When I say karate I am referring to real traditional karate training not Mcdojo karate and/or commercialized "get your black belt quick" hybreeds. I do agree with a previous posters comment that karate takes longer to master or be effective at. But once you are effective at a real traditional karate style then you should have no trouble in desposing of a an effective boxer. Traditional training in karate is "blood and guts" training and this type of training is not the exclusive only to kyokushinkai(a style that I admire and respect). The trouble with karate is that it has been watered down and this applies to even some of the tougher schools. Most "anti-traditionalists" will use Mcdojo karate when making comparisons with boxing, bjj or MMA's, where of course the Mcdojos would loose out and deservedly so. KungFuMan Only time and commitment will make your Traditional "style" good and give you real knowledge. "Marry" your chosen system as opposed to just flirting with it. Make it your partner for life and you will see how well and how complete it really is.
jhirsh Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 umm, as with any fight anything is possible. Although in a street fight karate strikes are much more effective. Boxers train to throw heavy punches to inflict damage with a glove on. Karate students are supposed to train to throw accurate breaking punches, elbows, knees, kicks etc. The karate student would also have an advantage because it is possible that he is trained to fight a boxer. While the boxer probably has no training to fight a karate student. The boxer should have the edge on conditioning however if properly trained the karate student should understand economy of motion and not tire as quickly. Any proper street fight shouldnt last more than a minute or so. Rarely will a street fight last as long as a boxing match or probably even a boxing round unless there are multiple participants. There are always passers by, police, bouncers etc... so conditioning in my opinon will be a mute point. Strength is probably going to go to the boxer as they in thier sport have to fight for a very very long time. Boxers are also used to fighting in their weight division so fighting outside of it may throw them off, while a karate student doesnt share the same problem. So a good karate fighter vs a good boxer in a street fight with luck and chaos being out of the equation. The fighter will win as he is trained to fight. A good boxer vs a karate fighter in a boxing ring. The boxer will win as he is trained to box. karate practioner from mcDojo's R us vs boxer in boxing ring or street fight. The boxer will win as he is trained to box and karate practioner is trained in technique but not the use of.
SevenStar Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 I believe as a martial art karate (and kung fu for that matter) is far more superior to boxing. When I say karate I am referring to real traditional karate training not Mcdojo karate and/or commercialized "get your black belt quick" hybreeds. I do agree with a previous posters comment that karate takes longer to master or be effective at. But once you are effective at a real traditional karate style then you should have no trouble in desposing of a an effective boxer. Traditional training in karate is "blood and guts" training and this type of training is not the exclusive only to kyokushinkai(a style that I admire and respect). The trouble with karate is that it has been watered down and this applies to even some of the tougher schools. Most "anti-traditionalists" will use Mcdojo karate when making comparisons with boxing, bjj or MMA's, where of course the Mcdojos would loose out and deservedly so. KungFuMan I'm not referring to McDojo karate... I'm referring to "blood and guts" training, as you put it. Also, kyokushinkai in recent times has been influenced quite a bit by thai boxing.
SevenStar Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 umm, as with any fight anything is possible. Although in a street fight karate strikes are much more effective. Boxers train to throw heavy punches to inflict damage with a glove on. surely you realize that those punches hurt even more without gloves... Karate students are supposed to train to throw accurate breaking punches, elbows, knees, kicks etc. The karate student would also have an advantage because it is possible that he is trained to fight a boxer. if the karateka has never boxed, he can't possibly be trained to fight a boxer, can he? he may be familiar with the techniques, but likely not the tactics. Also, as you said - they are SUPPOSED to train to throw deadly techniques. but there is a difference between theory and application. While the boxer probably has no training to fight a karate student. The boxer should have the edge on conditioning however if properly trained the karate student should understand economy of motion and not tire as quickly. not true. Adrenaline dump can get anyone equally... Any proper street fight shouldnt last more than a minute or so. Rarely will a street fight last as long as a boxing match or probably even a boxing round unless there are multiple participants. see above about adrenaline dump. it wears you down fast. in many cases, less than a minute. Also, I've seen SEVERAL street fights that have lasted longer than a minute. Once again, theory vs application. Boxers are also used to fighting in their weight division so fighting outside of it may throw them off, while a karate student doesnt share the same problem. tell me you aren't serious....If you are, try it out - find a local full contact event and enter it. Tell the promoter you want to fight in a weight class above yours. Then you will see why there weight classes. there is a difference between full contact and light contact when it comes to size advantage. size WILL matter, given that skill level is equal. The more skilled you are than him, the less of a factor it will be, but if you are equal, his size will give you hell. So a good karate fighter vs a good boxer in a street fight with luck and chaos being out of the equation. The fighter will win as he is trained to fight. A good boxer vs a karate fighter in a boxing ring. The boxer will win as he is trained to box. gag me...
jhirsh Posted February 23, 2005 Posted February 23, 2005 The punches would be more effective without gloves if the boxer knows how to hit without breaking a pinky. You do know most boxing schools teach to hit with that part of the hand so they make sure the glove makes full contact. I can guarantee you that getting hit hard with the pinky end of a hand would do allot less damage than getting hit hard with the first two knuckles of a hand. As you know many karate schools now days are hybrids where an instructor is versed in the sport of boxing and hence can teach technique to fight a boxer. I know the first school I went to did. Adrenaline dump can get anyone equally... True but it doesn’t have to. Often if you remove emotion from the equation it’s not an issue. Personally I don't think id be in a fight if emotion were playing a part and I hope most karate schools teach people why. I have fought larger people than me (im small 5-10 165lbs), I dont think any of them were boxers. Im not saying that size doesn’t matter in fact im saying the opposite. However in a school where people train to fight larger and smaller people that will help in a street fight a boxer doesn’t have that advantage.
Mr. Mike Posted February 23, 2005 Posted February 23, 2005 Adrenaline dump can get anyone equally... True but it doesn’t have to. Often if you remove emotion from the equation it’s not an issue. Personally I don't think id be in a fight if emotion were playing a part and I hope most karate schools teach people why. most people simply do not have adequate training to not let feat be a huge factor. you can stress train all you want, but most students are in a certain comfort zone as long as they are in their dojo. In a real altercation, that all goes right out the window. When a man's fortunate time comes, he meets a good friend;When a man has lost his luck, he meets a beautiful woman.-anonymous
KungFuMan Posted February 23, 2005 Posted February 23, 2005 Seventstar, "kyokushinkai in recent times has been influenced by thai boxing"...... Are you talking in competition fighting or street fighting? Also, we are not talking about thai boxing but western boxing. And, as I said before, there are other schools of traditional karate that are hardcore and effective (covering and practicing fighting aspects that a boxer would not dream of). Also, I believe that your definition of "blood and guts" karate is different to mine. Nowadays in the west real karate training is rare. This is my opinion based on what I have observed and that there are Mcdojos and dojos that are slightly better than Mc dojos, for the most part. These better Mcdojos are sometimes mistaken for the real thing and perhaps these are the "blood and guts" karate that you are referring to. I am happy to say that there are authentic traditional karate (and kung fu for that matter) but they are very few and not so easy to find. Only time and commitment will make your Traditional "style" good and give you real knowledge. "Marry" your chosen system as opposed to just flirting with it. Make it your partner for life and you will see how well and how complete it really is.
daeinwolf Posted February 23, 2005 Posted February 23, 2005 The punches would be more effective without gloves if the boxer knows how to hit without breaking a pinky. You do know most boxing schools teach to hit with that part of the hand so they make sure the glove makes full contact. I can guarantee you that getting hit hard with the pinky end of a hand would do allot less damage than getting hit hard with the first two knuckles of a hand.---While I agree with you on boxer's break, the boxer should be more than aware of this if he is worth his salt. And I disagree on getting hit with that area not hurting as much. If the force transferred is the same then the impact will be relatively the same. Now the amount of pressure that portion of the hand can withstand will be different, but not necessarily the amount of pain it creates.True but it doesn’t have to. Often if you remove emotion from the equation it’s not an issue. Personally I don't think id be in a fight if emotion were playing a part and I hope most karate schools teach people why. ---Wrong. While it is possible to control this reaction, VERY FEW people have the ability to negate such a psychosomatic reaction. I mean, to do so, you would have to be able to ignore thousands of years of evolutionary programming. SiK---Joshua There are no limits.
SevenStar Posted February 23, 2005 Posted February 23, 2005 The punches would be more effective without gloves if the boxer knows how to hit without breaking a pinky. You do know most boxing schools teach to hit with that part of the hand so they make sure the glove makes full contact. I can guarantee you that getting hit hard with the pinky end of a hand would do allot less damage than getting hit hard with the first two knuckles of a hand. you don know that many boxing schools now actually advocate throwing the hook with a horizontal fist, right? when done that way, "boxer's break" doesn't happen. Also, I have known several MA trained in other styles that have broken their hand in fights. such is life... As you know many karate schools now days are hybrids where an instructor is versed in the sport of boxing and hence can teach technique to fight a boxer. I know the first school I went to did. not in my experience. from what I've seen, there are some who "kickbox" but I don't know many that have actually had formal boxing training, or kickboxing training for that matter, other than modifying what their karate and sparring with it. Adrenaline dump can get anyone equally... True but it doesn’t have to. Often if you remove emotion from the equation it’s not an issue. Personally I don't think id be in a fight if emotion were playing a part and I hope most karate schools teach people why. you'd be surprised... I have fought larger people than me (im small 5-10 165lbs), I dont think any of them were boxers. Im not saying that size doesn’t matter in fact im saying the opposite. However in a school where people train to fight larger and smaller people that will help in a street fight a boxer doesn’t have that advantage. yes they do. in class, they will spar whomever is there. It's in competition that they fight in their weight class.
shukokai2000 Posted June 13, 2005 Author Posted June 13, 2005 thanks for the feedback to all stylist "oos!"
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