Karate v Boxing

[White Warlock]

You are ASSUMING that a kick from a traditionally trained karatekai from a fighting school is going to just bounce off a boxer's knee or leg without absolutely hurting or distracting him. Remembering that boxers have no training whatsoever to deal with leg attacks.

I'm thinking more along the lines that the assumption is a boxer has not received training to deal with leg attacks. In fact, from my encounters, most boxers are eclectic practitioners.

Furthermore, a second attack can also be a hand attack. You are ASSUMING that once a boxer gets into close range then he will win against a karatekai, however, keep in mind that a hardcore karatekai will have fought short range and will have enough technique and firepower to fight close range.

Training and application are two entirely different things. A boxer is more adept at infighting, on the average, because they spend a huge portion of their training time within the infight position.

I will also add that he will have the option of using takedowns, which exist in traditional karate, but not boxing as far as I know.

Agreed that a boxer, by default, would not have takedowns, but neither does karate have that much to offer on the ground. The hardship to this is that a vast majority of boxers have also studied freestyle wrestling.

Also, if you are going to bring Mike Tyson into it then maybe I can bring Mas. Oyama into this equasion and then I will put the battle into a street scenario and bare knuckle at that. See where I am going?

How about putting me into the equation. I'll kick both their scrawny butts.

[Traditional-Fist]

I'm thinking more along the lines that the assumption is a boxer has not received training to deal with leg attacks. In fact, from my encounters, most boxers are eclectic practitioners.

And I have met karate practitioners who are eclectic as well, not forgetting of course that karate is eclectic by design when compared to boxing.

Training and application are two entirely different things. A boxer is more adept at infighting, on the average, because they spend a huge portion of their training time within the infight position.

Traditional Karatekai from the hardcore schools spend a lot of the time infighting as well. Many will have the bruises and broken bones to prove it. This may happen more in japan and Okinawa than the western countries, but even so I believe there are a few real hard core schools still functioning in the west.

Agreed that a boxer, by default, would not have takedowns, but neither does karate have that much to offer on the ground.

Karate DOES have takedown techniques through the use of locks, sweeps and even leg grabs. Obviously how much depends on the individual style. Once the opponent is down the karate-kai does not have to go to ground with him. Usually they train to hit the opponent as he is going down or as soon as he hits the floor. Depending on the style the hit could be to a general target like the head or the torso or to vital areas such as the windpipe or the eyes which are hit or even grabbed. The latter type of finishing reduces the chances of the downed opponent getting up or pulling the karatekai down to the ground.

I would also like to add that there is a traditional Okinawan Goju-ryu school here in london where ground fighting is practised. This aspect of the training is not taken from wrestling, judo nor Bjj. Groundfighting training applications are taken directly from the traditional Okinawan Goju katas.

The hardship to this is that a vast majority of boxers have also studied freestyle wrestling.

....But we are comparing the two arts individually. I know that in Japan many karatekai have judo backgrounds as well, but that is not the point.

How about putting me into the equation. I'll kick both their scrawny butts.

I will be there to hold your M60 machinegun while you are shooting at Mas and Mike.

[White Warlock]

Agreed that a boxer, by default, would not have takedowns, but neither does karate have that much to offer on the ground.

Karate DOES have takedown techniques through the use of locks, sweeps and even leg grabs. Obviously how much depends on the individual style. Once the opponent is down the karate-kai does not have to go to ground with him. Usually they train to hit the opponent as he is going down or as soon as he hits the floor.

Which was my point. Karate does not have much to offer on the ground. I.e., 'both' combatants on the ground.

I would also like to add that there is a traditional Okinawan Goju-ryu school here in london where ground fighting is practised. This aspect of the training is not taken from wrestling, judo nor Bjj. Groundfighting training applications are taken directly from the traditional Okinawan Goju katas.

There was a large exponent of karate practitioners, as you noted, that cross-trained in judo. I'm of the very strong suspicion that this school you mentioned is presenting that. I've examined goju-ryu, and it inherently provides very little groundwork... no matter how much you try to dissect the katas.

The hardship to this is that a vast majority of boxers have also studied freestyle wrestling.

....But we are comparing the two arts individually. I know that in Japan many karatekai have judo backgrounds as well, but that is not the point.

Yes, but the point was... bringing them to the ground where both practitioners, even without cross-training, would be at a disadvantage. The logic here is just not strong. If a karate practitioner's strength is standup, then that is where he should maintain if battle. As to taking 'the other person' to the ground, while you remain standing, of course. I'm sure both combatant types would aim for that. However, that is not what was presented, and thus not what i was responding to.

How about putting me into the equation. I'll kick both their scrawny butts.

I will be there to hold your M60 machinegun while you are shooting at Mas and Mike.

[y2_sub]

Also, if you are going to bring Mike Tyson into it then maybe I can bring Mas. Oyama into this equasion and then I will put the battle into a street scenario and bare knuckle at that.

Fight of the millennium .

[Patrick]

Traditional-Fist and White Warlock vs. Mike Tyson and Mas. Oyama.

Result: KarateForums.com Memberlist: -2.

[White Warlock]

lol, i didn't know Mike Tyson and Mas Oyama were members.

[Traditional-Fist]

There was a large exponent of karate practitioners, as you noted, that cross-trained in judo. I'm of the very strong suspicion that this school you mentioned is presenting that. I've examined goju-ryu, and it inherently provides very little groundwork... no matter how much you try to dissect the katas.

Have a look at the following link for the Goju-Ryu school that I mentioned mentioned in my previous post. The school teaches traditional Okinawan Goju-Ryu and the instructor is Shihan Gavin Mulholland. https://www.goju-karate.co.uk Then click on "courses".

Yes, but the point was... bringing them to the ground where both practitioners, even without cross-training, would be at a disadvantage. The logic here is just not strong. If a karate practitioner's strength is standup, then that is where he should maintain if battle.

In general a karate practioner's strenght is stand up but he trains more take down techniques then a boxer, as mentioned in my previous post. The boxer on the other hand does not train takedowns in any potent way nor does he train defenses against karate take down techniques eg. sweeps, leg grabs etc, etc.

And on the ground, a little arsenal is better than no arsenal at all. Also not forgetting that karate has more techniques that can be adopted to the ground than does boxing e.g. finger, elbow, knee and headbutt attacks. Again of course, there are karate styles that are richer in the ground fighting department than others.

As to taking 'the other person' to the ground, while you remain standing, of course. I'm sure both combatant types would aim for that.

Yes, but the karatekai has a richer arsenal in that department, ie. not just punching with hands, but also sweeps, kicks, leg grabs, etc. and does not just train the takedowns, but also how to finish the opponent after the takedown is complete.

[Traditional-Fist]

Also, if you are going to bring Mike Tyson into it then maybe I can bring Mas. Oyama into this equasion and then I will put the battle into a street scenario and bare knuckle at that.

Fight of the millennium .

....And probably a short one at that.

[MATX1]

It depends on who's the better martial artist. A better Karate fighter can defeat the boxer and a better boxer might come up on top.

The first answer hit the nail on the head

[Menjo]

Yea but i cant say anything because i soemtimes try to get my say in even when its already settled.