Menjo Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Ok ill agree that, well said. "Time is what we want most, but what we use worst"William Penn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Warlock Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 thanks "When you are able to take the keys from my hand, you will be ready to drive." - Shaolin DMV TestIntro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meguro Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Systems do not define a person. A person defines himself.Wasn't the initial question about karate and boxing and not about individual merit? Take ten average guys, of equal strength and ability, send half to a boxing gym and half to a dojo. At the end of a fixed period, say 1 year, throw them all in a pit with no rules and see which guys emerge. Remarkable individuals reveal nothing about a system.I personally have no stake in the outcome. It's my impression that the average boxer is a better conditioned athlete. This is important, and will no doubt have an influence on the outcome of a match. Still, boxing vs. karate is comparing too dissimilar things. A more interesting comparison would be boxing vs. muay thai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Warlock Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Wasn't the initial question about karate and boxing and not about individual merit? After 10 pages, a discussion is bound to tangentialize. Also, comparing one system to another is not necessarily a valid approach, especially when utilizing persons... or conditioning... as a means to gauge systems.Take ten average guys, of equal strength and ability, send half to a boxing gym and half to a dojo. At the end of a fixed period, say 1 year, throw them all in a pit with no rules and see which guys emerge. The problem is, you are relying on 20 'individuals.' You are also not defining 'what boxing gym or what dojo. The manner in which a teacher instructs a class, or a student studies an art, is not entirely dependent upon the system. Granted, there are tendencies, but no steadfast rules. You did cover the point i made earlier... conditioning. It is the manner in which you train, and the energy at which you present in your studies, that determines your overall effectiveness with a system.Remarkable individuals reveal nothing about a system.Ahh, but they do reveal something about individuals... and what can be accomplished.... .... .... with any style.I personally have no stake in the outcome. It's my impression that the average boxer is a better conditioned athlete. This is important, and will no doubt have an influence on the outcome of a match. Still, boxing vs. karate is comparing too dissimilar things. A more interesting comparison would be boxing vs. muay thai.I agree on all points here. "When you are able to take the keys from my hand, you will be ready to drive." - Shaolin DMV TestIntro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2_sub Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Actually , Meguro is relying on 10 individuals not 20 . Moon might shine upon the innocent and the guilty alike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glockmeister Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 It is pleasing to see that in 10 pages of some very different opinions, nobody got into a flame war or style bashing rant. Personally I think the edge goes to the boxer in alot of cases due to the conditioning and alot of full contact sparring. One of the things my kickboxing/boxing coach used to tell me is that when a person is used to taking full power hits, they tend to lose their fear of getting hit, making it easier for them to block, parry and work around shots thrown at them.Notice I said the edge and didnt say a boxer would definately win. there are too many factors going into a random fight for there to be any absolutes. "You know the best thing about pain? It let's you know you're not dead yet!"http://geshmacheyid.forumotion.com/f14-self-defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menjo Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 It is pleasing to see that in 10 pages of some very different opinions, nobody got into a flame war or style bashing rant. Personally I think the edge goes to the boxer in alot of cases due to the conditioning and alot of full contact sparring. One of the things my kickboxing/boxing coach used to tell me is that when a person is used to taking full power hits, they tend to lose their fear of getting hit, making it easier for them to block, parry and work around shots thrown at them.Notice I said the edge and didnt say a boxer would definately win. there are too many factors going into a random fight for there to be any absolutes.Yea that was really well put, nice wraping up what people were trying to say in a nice short post. "Time is what we want most, but what we use worst"William Penn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why_Worry Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 It really depends on the person. There is a story of an Okinawan karateka named Choki Motobu. (i'm going to try me best to retell it)Choki Motobu and his friend read of matches which had boxers face off against judo students/adepts (i think its called judoka but i dont want to direspect anyones names so i will just say judo students). So Choki and his friend went to go see them as they were very interested. There was one boxer who was extremely good. He defeated the boxers almost methodically one after another until all of the judo students/adepts had been defeated. Then he called into the auidience asking if there was no one else who would fight. Choki's friend who had no knowledge that he was an adept in karate asked him if he thought there were any people in Okinawa who could defeat this man. Choki replied "At least six." His friend couldnt believe that such a small island as Okinawa could produce six people who could defeat this man or even stand their own against him. Then the man called into the auidience again and Choki stood up. His friend tried to pull him back down saying he didnt mean for him to fight but Choki wouldnt listen. So Choki went into the ring and the match started. The boxer went around him and threw a feint. Choki recognized the feint and didnt move and blocked the following punch. Then the boxer kept throwing punches and combonations while Choki just blocked and dodged until he was tired and saw his opening and hit him making him fall to the ground and he won. (P.S. he might not have knocked him to the ground but he did win, i forget exactly how it happened at the end.) Focus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why_Worry Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 But i'm not saying a boxer is worse, its just that most of the time karatekas train their whole life while boxers work in their prime and into the fourties maybe. If they continued training for a very long time and their whole lives then i am not sure whether a karateka or boxer would come out on top. I know i would liek to get in a match with a boxer (Well actualyl i would cause it would be fun) but i dont wanna get in a full contact match with a boxer. Focus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why_Worry Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 You need to focuse on the amount of time of peoples lives the train in each. Focus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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