Fighting in different scenarios

[DokterVet]

Have you ever wondered why MMA hasn't explored fighting in areas other than an open octagon or boxing ring? Clearly some techniques have proven themselve in this arena, but what about a narrow passageway with no room to round kick? What about on a bridge or near an edge where one could easily fall off if a takedown goes awry?

 

I spar with one friend in particular usually in the area between his couch and the bottom of his basement stairs, so there is no possible side to side movement. Roundhouse kicks, except possibly TKD style to the face, are impossible. He stands side-on and throws a lot of powerful side kicks. I can't circle so as to give him a bad angle because there is no room to circle. I throw a lot of lead-leg front kicks to keep him at bay, as there's no way for him to come in around them.

 

I think it just shows that different techniques will take precidence in different scenarios. I'd like to see MMA in various scenarios other than just the octagon and boxing ring.

[WhiteBelt]

What if, I tie you up and start throwing judo chops?

 

It might be fun for me, but everybody else will be very bored.

[jos2thehua]

I think the it would be cool if a MMA event were held in a bowl type arena. It would be a lot funnier to watch them try to do moves on a unbalenced ground.

[MenteReligieuse]

Taken from the very insteresting article : http://www.donrearic.com/streetreality.html

NHB PPVs and Reality

 

So, because alot of Martial Arts, for years, have been promoted as a means of Self-defense and so many people realized that was nonsense, what happened? Ahh...someone was very smart and made ALOT of money on it, that’s what happened!

 

The No Holds Barred, Pay Per View Event [PPV] happened, that’s what. This was supposed to separate the Posers from the Fighters, and let’s face it, in many ways it DID do just that. There were STILL those pesky Rules, however, and any time you inject Rules into "Fighting," you are going to have loopholes, you are handicapping some people. That’s a fair and honest observation I believe.

 

In other words, you get a guy that drills eyes, throat, nuts and knees and uses the correct tools to attack each, over and over again, he will usually survive on the Street if he keeps his wits about him. In a Ring, again...not so good.

 

These were never "No Techniques Barred" Matches, they were, "No Holds Barred" Matches, and yes, there IS a difference. All the difference in the World.

 

What we learned from these Matches is this, if you are facing one attacker that has no weapon(s) and you have a somewhat forgiving surface to fight on, various Hybrids of Jujutsu and Wrestling including both Brazilian JJ and Roman-Greco Wrestling trend towards superiority within those parameters. I also think that is fair to say. I think it has been proven. That does not mean Practitioners are invincible by any means. The Grapplers are fond of saying, "Most fights end up on the ground," or they will offer up a percentage of fights that end up on the ground, say, 80%. Where this statistic came from, no one knows! But it is out there, anyway, as "Jim Grover" pointed out and others have as well, sometimes fights end up on the ground because people don’t know how to keep things from going to the ground [i’m paraphrasing here, but that is more or less the idea].

 

The Tripod of Superiority

 

Let’s get back to the Superiority of Grappling. If you have watched some of these matches, something becomes immediately apparent, these guys are damned tough people! I’m not taking anything away from them at all. And I would get my * kicked in that ring with them, that’s not my turf. That’s why. There is alot to be said for being tough, but, this is still a match with Rules.

 

I’ve had discussions with NHB Fighters, and some of them are involved in Weapons-Based Arts, that is someone I don’t want to run into! But some of them are ignorant and they’re arrogant. And if they’re not these things, they might be crazy, I don’t know.

 

I know what I was taught in Jujutsu was, the ground, walls, tables, chairs and telephone poles, all were your friend because you could throw someone onto/into them and bust them up. You ever hear the old saying, "It’s not the fall that kills you, it’s the sudden stop at the end?" Well, that’s the active, operational part. The throw or takedown does not hurt you, getting slammed with force and all of your body weight behind it has a tendency to damage you. To the Grappler, the ground is his friend.

 

Yet, if you have watched some of these matches, you see these guys use the forgiving quality of the ring’s surface and they EXPLOIT the fact that the surface in question will not hurt them. That surface will not rip their face off, concrete and blacktop can do that. Broken glass, debris, hell, used SYRINGES of all things! I’ve seen PLENTY of them in areas where you are LIKELY to have to defend yourself.

 

I know all of the counters to what I am saying, I tried to inject some sanity into a discussion once and was told, "I’ll fight on broken glass, I don’t care!"

 

OK, so...[COUGH COUGH], OK! You are willing to fight on broken glass. If I get knocked to the ground in an alley that has broken glass, I HAVE to fight there. Volunteering to do these things, to me, is just not my cup of tea. You want to tear yourself up like that just to prove how tough or bad you are? That’s OK with me. I don’t think it proves anything, but by all means, you are free to say it or even do it. I don’t care.

 

If you go to the ground in the real world, and you are used to exploiting a certain surface that is forgiving, don’t be amazed if you seriously hurt yourself and possibly to the point of losing.

 

In the Real World, away from the Ring and the Rules, one should endeavor to stay the hell OFF of the ground, that does NOT mean you should not learn how to fight on the ground either. By all means, you should be competent on the ground. You should also NOT go there by choice in a real fight. The ground is an unforgiving bastard. Use it as a weapon to smash someone with if you can, but it is also an unforgiving bastard if something goes wrong and you are the guy who thinks he has control of everything only to find out that you don’t and you end up eating the High-Speed Pavement.

 

Now, this illustration is what I am talking about, I call it, "The Tripod of Superiority."

 

 

 

At the top we see, "Unarmed Attacker [No Weapons]."

 

At the bottom we see, "Single Attacker [No Multiples]" and, "Forgiving Surface [Compatibility]."

 

The surface has to be forgiving, now, why not use concrete and blacktop in these matches? Anyway, I’m not going to argue this point with anyone in the future. If someone wants to go upside down on their face in order to get someone in a headlock with their legs, outside of "Joe’s Beer Joint and Funeral Parlor," hey! Go for it! Tear your face off, break your own neck, smash your brainpan!

 

Next, a Single Attacker, you add just one more guy, you don’t want to be on the ground. Way too easy for someone else to stick a knife in your back, club you, choke YOU while you’re choking their buddy or just stomp your guts out. Walk right up on your little Vale Tudo reenactment and pop you in the head with a round of 9mm.

 

Finally, an Unarmed Attacker, No Weapons Involved. A diminutive Emerson/Perrin LaGriffe changes everything. A pencil can change everything. Why go into everything that can be done with weapons, it should be obvious.

 

Any time one of these things in the Tripod is missing, like any Tripod, there is the possibility of failure of the structure, wobbling and teetering and then a fall, a failure.

 

Remove one leg and the Tripod is not so strong, is it? You lay out the Rules for the NHB PPV Event, and within those parameters, Grapplers usually win, not always, but usually they will be the victor. That means that those Arts tend to be superior in that environment and that is ALL it means.

 

The little knife that you did not see, might kill you. The friend of the guy you are fighting, the one you did not know about, he might kill you. The lowly, nasty .25 Caliber Raven Semi-Auto Handgun that you never knew about and you would never own because it is not really a quality weapon...if the guy dumps the whole magazine into you, that might kill you too.

 

Don’t go to the ground on purpose.

 

Know what you are doing on the ground in case you land there.

 

Learn to get the hell back up off the ground and on your feet.

 

If someone wants to take you to the ground and pound on you, break some of your bones, "curb" your teeth or choke you to death...remember The Tripod of Superiority and utilize whatever weapon you can.

 

The real world is full of hard/sharp surfaces, multiple attackers and alot of weapons. Guns, knives, clubs...all sorts of things.

[DokterVet]

Hmm...interesting article.

 

He does use the old 'used needles/broken glass/liquid magma' argument, but I do agree with a lot of what he says.

 

I agree that the paramaters of a NHB match favours a certain type of fighting. Do you agree with me that it would be interesting to see variations in the NHB rulesets/arenas?

[WhiteBelt]

Ring, cage, and octagon, are all different. Each orginization has it's own ruleset. What are you really looking for?

[DokterVet]

What about a cage that is 15 feet by 4 feet? Uneven ground? A raised platform?

[G95champ]

You will never have a NHB fight in any event because some moves are just for real life. I mean if you take me down on the street and I can get my fingers in your eyes you bet that you wont be able to see before long. But in a ring in a event Im not going to blind someone. You can never simulate real fights and yes the situation does impact the appliactions you use. This is one of the important aspects of kata in your traditional arts.

 

As much as we would like to see don't look for t he UFC or K1 to start holding fights in subways, football fields, and stair walks. Its no a video game its a sport and all sport has rules fighting does not...

[WhiteBelt]

15 by 4? Sounds like olympic fencing but with kicks...

 

I'd like to add that they have rules to keep the people safe so you can see them fight again another day. Sure, if you want the full gladiatorial combat thing then feed 'em to the lions.

[MenteReligieuse]

What the article says is that the ring actually benefits grapplers vs rest. One cannot say grappling is superior solely basing himself on those sporting events.