TaeKwondo, Lethal Art compared to Karate?

[Gosuku]

As everyone has stated, I think it really depends on the teaching.

 

While almost all of the Tae Kwon Do practioners I've know were learning the "sport" version, I'm sure some are taught for combat type situations.

 

I used to really wonder about it because when I started going to karate tournaments TKD practioners came too, and I always saw them fight with their arms down at their sides. While they could perform cool looking kicks, I found it strange. The rules were different for them so I think that made it harder. From what I understand, in TKD tournaments you can't grab at all. I would always just grab their leg and punch them in the face repeatedly. Most wouldn't bother trying to block.

 

For some of you here, do you practice punches and holding a guard?

 

It's a shame that sport TKD is all alot of us see, I'd like to see the original art.

[Ottman]

Gosuku, We actually have a lot of hand techniques, and grabs, and sweeps, and throws, but none of them are allowed in TKD tournament sparring. In TKD competition, punches are only allowed to the body, and all other hand techniques are outlawed. Also, we cannot sweep (strike below the belt), grab, or throw in competition.

 

I know this has been mentioned before (by me) but I'm not sure why the rules of TKD tournaments incite many TKD competitors to lower their arms in competition. I rarely have my arms lowered, unless I'm blocking low, and I'm not sure who is teaching these guys to keep their arms down.

 

As for just grabbing my leg and punching me in the face, that's easier said than done. Since we focus a lot of our training on kicks, most tkd practitioners can kick faster and harder, and at a much broader range of heights than other stylists. We also practice a lot of feints and deception in our techniques. A direct kicking attack from a tkder is a sign of low belt, low skill sparring. Against a seasoned, experienced opponent, I would never kick directly and allow my leg to be grabbed. Also, we are taught to use the longer range a kick gives us to our advantage and thus tkders tend to stay out of an opponent's arm range until the moment of attack making it very difficult to simply grab the leg.

 

The traditional practice of tae kwon do is all about combat and defense and while sparring is fun, it is definately not the extent of what's taught at a traditional TKD school, rather it barely scratches surface.

[mattyj]

Gosuku, We actually have a lot of hand techniques, and grabs, and sweeps, and throws, but none of them are allowed in TKD tournament sparring. In TKD competition, punches are only allowed to the body, and all other hand techniques are outlawed. Also, we cannot sweep (strike below the belt), grab, or throw in competition.

 

this may be true in alot or most of tkd forms, but in the 'original' tkd (ie as general choi the founder designed it), itf, and in alot of more traditional forms of tkd, punches are allowed to the face, so you dont see so much of the low guarding, cos ud just get smashed.

[Ottman]

You're right mattyj, this type of sparring is now usually called 'point sparring' and is found primarily in ITF dojangs, whereas the other style is known as 'olympic style,' but the problem I have with point sparring (where punches to the face are allowed) is that it is entirely light contact and any strike that is percieved by the referee as being too hard means a point deduction. The definition of a 'hard' strike is anything that moves the person off their balance. When dealing with head shots, any attack that makes the head move back at all is illegal. Also, the match pauses after every hit so that the judges may judge each point individually. Obviously this isn't the most exciting form of sparring to watch so it unfortunately doesn't get the publicity like full contact, non-stop olympic style sparring does. General Choi obviously created TKD as a combat art, but like gosuku mentioned, most only get to see the sport aspects of TKD. I was trying to explain to him why he wouldn't see many hand techniques if he watched tournaments or the miniscule amount of TKD that is shown on TV. Anyone who actually practices the art, obviously knows better.

[sk0t]

After going through all 5 pages of posts...I seem to see 2 reoccurring themes.

 

-People who believe a misconception that all TKD use too many kicks, and not enough punches.

 

-People who feel that it doesnt matter what style, it depends upon the person.

 

I fall into the category of the latter. I have been to many TKD schools in my day...and the majority of them focus on 2 sides. They teach 'Olympic style sparring' or 'Point Sparring' on one side, on the other side, the self-defense techniques are practical, and the knife-defenses are valid. It seems to me like people take what they see in the Olympics or they take what someone told them about TKD and think that it is all the same. Each school is different. And I know that the majority of schools that I have visited, have a valid self-defense oriented portion of their normal TKD class.

 

And when it comes to what is more lethal, does it matter...for no one would try to find out anyway.

[Ottman]

And when it comes to what is more lethal, does it matter...for no one would try to find out anyway.

 

Amen thugtkd.

 

P.S. I think your quote in your digital signature says it all.

[smr]

My only beef with TKD is that, although it may not apply to all schools, I always see twelve and thirteen year old TKD blackbelts running around at tournaments. I even met a fifteen y/o TKD second dan once. What is that? None of these kids could fight their way out of a paper bag. THEN they even have the audacity to think that because somebody bought them a black belt, they get to boss around kyu's ten years their senior. This may not be limited solely to TKD, but TKD seems to have the most kiddy black belts of all the arts I've encountered.

[y2_sub]

That point you mentioned smr is totally wrong ... i don't think that someone who deserve to be a black belt , must be holded by his age , after all , it's not the age that matters .. plus , that may help that 'kid' to build his confidence ...

[y2_sub]

so it unfortunately doesn't get the publicity like full contact, non-stop olympic style sparring does

first i have never seen a non-stop TKD match before ... it just seems like the opponenents wait each other for more than 15 seconds before someone starts an assult .... and it's true that u must hit hard so the point counts , but after all your opponent is wearing protective "shield" .. so i don't think that TKD is really a full contact style , at least , not the way you described it , in hard contact styles like Mhuai tai or kyokushinkai , you must not only learn how to hit hard , but also to recive hard hits ..

[smr]

That point you mentioned smr is totally wrong ... i don't think that someone who deserve to be a black belt , must be holded by his age , after all , it's not the age that matters .. plus , that may help that 'kid' to build his confidence ...

What I'm saying is that how is it possible that a twelve year old have the ability both physically and intellectually to be yudansha? Suppose it takes five years to reach shodan in a typical school training two or three times a week. The student had to have started when they were seven years old. There are exceptions, but most seven year olds I've worked with have not been competent enough to learn Karate at the same pace as someone in their teens.