Whats your way of punching?

[dippedappe]

"Theres chi sao in both(well at least a little)"

 

"really?

 

where?

 

what style?"

 

Chi Sao is from pushing hands and alike. We have pushing hands. I read in a book of all GF styles that theres chi sao in other styles to. So I asked my teacher if we had it in our style to. He said yes to some extend. He mentioned punching hand and chi sao lookalike...thingy(lol), but I cant really remember the name. So I guess I cant really prove it, so im dropping it here.

 

"granted some things like 'blocks' and parries look similar but they way they are done are not the same.

 

here's a little challenge;

 

try to find the three seeds of wing chun in ANY other chinese kung fu style."

 

Tell me how am I surposed to do that?

 

"same stance?

 

again, show me what other chinese style uses the goat stance as the main training stance."

 

I dont think the goat stance is in others but. When I was at free classes in wt. I noticed that the to basic stances you use are "marbu" and "dimsangu"(hard to spell so it isnt right written Im sure).

 

Marbu is horse stance(the one where your feets are right under your shoulders and facing forward with both the face, body, and feets) Dimsangu is cat stance(the one where you have all your bodyweight on the leg longest away from you enemy, and the other facing your oponents leg barlig touching the floor). Also some of my fellow students has practiced WC before shaolin so theyv shown it to me to.

 

"kicks?

 

again, the kicking in wing chun is very idiosyncratic to wing chun (in relation to chinese styles).

 

again, the other styles that have similar methods/reasons for their use are of the same period and again, only two other styles come to mind."

 

The frontkick is used as an allaround kick. We use our whole foot(unlike other karate styles, and just like I have seen in your style). You place your foot to push him away, you use it to block with, you kick with it to damage him, so whatever you use it for, we use it for.

 

Do you have sidekick and roundhousekick?

 

"animal movements?

 

wing chun does not concerntrate on crane movements.

 

wing chun concerntrates on hand movements.

 

it is kinda based PARTLY on old crane essence but that's as far as it goes.

 

more than anything it is about use of structure."

 

Okay I give you that.

 

"just in case you missed it.

 

i asked you where do you see similarities.

 

don't just give general things like 'punch'.

 

tell me where you see a similar punch being done.

 

same for the kicks and stances and everything else you mentioned."

 

I dont know if this counts but. We have a punch that we draw from the shoulders to nose or whatever you wont to hit. You use the same punch from your centerline. since theres isnt a very long distance betwine a punch from the shoulder and one from the center. I thoughed it may be something simulere. and I also tried it in the wt classes, and it almost the same punch, very little difference.

 

Else there are the stances I already said. I have seen your frontkick and it is just like ours.

 

Your parries are much simulere to our crane parries. and others like snake. You stick to your opponent, and thats basically also what we do with most of our snake, mantis and crane parries.

 

Other than that, I cant see what else there is to martial art. If you would come with more facts about wing chun, I could point out the simularaties.

 

 

 

You concentrate on movements that we dont, but that doesnt mean we dont have and uses them. I dont know if this is of any use but, isnt the legend about wing chun that, the none toke the bedst tecniques from all the shaolin systems, moderated them and turned them into a complete system?

 

Dont get me wrong though. WC is a completely other system to ours, with many differences. But basicly, the way I see its atleast, its about the same.

 

"and what are you actually training in again?"

 

Nothern Shaolin.

[Drunken Monkey]

"Chi Sao is from pushing hands"

 

nope.

 

the three seeds of wing chun are the three basic moves from which everything comes from and what everything turns into.

 

they are almost exclusive to wing chun.

 

wing chun, in a way, ONLY uses the goat stance.

 

the forward/side stance is just the goat stance opened facing a certain direction.

 

it looks like the cat stance but it isn't.

 

as for what you call "mar-bu".

 

again, it looks like this (which i know as a bare stance, not a horse stance) but again, there is fundemental difference.

 

i.e not the same.

 

kicks.

 

as i have said, the main thing about wing chun kicks is not what it looks like but how it is done and when you would use a kick.

 

the principles behind the wing chun kick i have only seen in two other styles.

 

both of these were developed at around the same time and in the same regions as wng chun was.

 

as i said, things might look similar but that doesn't mean that they are.

 

and yes, there is a side-kick.

 

(and some have a sort of round kick)

 

the important thing about the wing chun punch is (once again) how it is done and how it relates to your body.

 

" since theres isnt a very long distance betwine a punch from the shoulder and one from the center. I thoughed it may be something simulere"

 

right.

 

big difference here is that with the punch from the shoulder, you don't have your bodymass directly behind it.

 

your punch from the shoulder does not have the same quality as the punch from the centre.

 

i.e it is not the same.

 

"Your parries are much simulere to our crane parries. and others like snake"

 

what ones?

 

please describe.

 

"You stick to your opponent"

 

sticking is a complicated issue in wing chun.

 

in most cases it is only applicable in very specific moments and only exists for a very brief moment.

 

so brief that if you are doing it correctly, it isn't like sticking.

 

i have not known any mantis to sctively stick how wing chun does.

 

grab and hold on to, yes.

 

'stick', no.

 

as for the otehr animals, i don't know what you are training so i can't say.

 

northern shaolin.

 

that's a bit broad.

 

it would make more sense if you can you give a few names to forms or something that you are doing or have done so that i can have a more useful point of reference?

 

how long have you been training?

 

"WC is a completely other system to ours, with many differences. But basicly, the way I see its at least, its about the same."

 

y'know, this is the first time i've heard anyone who practices a northern style say that wing chun is similar, even in theory, to their style.

 

this includes northern mantis guys.

[dippedappe]

""Chi Sao is from pushing hands"

 

nope."

 

Well, then where is it comming from?

 

"wing chun, in a way, ONLY uses the goat stance.

 

the forward/side stance is just the goat stance opened facing a certain direction.

 

it looks like the cat stance but it isn't.

 

as for what you call "mar-bu".

 

again, it looks like this (which i know as a bare stance, not a horse stance) but again, there is fundemental difference.

 

i.e not the same. "

 

What is the fundemental difference? We use it so your opponent cant sweep you, and cant kick you in the jeeppies.

 

And I remember that it was that I was told in wt to. If it has something to do with the internal erfares, then your not alone.

 

As for the bare stance and horse stance. Im not sure if we mean the same thing. Il try and be precice.

 

Your cat stance is the (front)body towards the opponent. right leg almost streched out towards him with the foot toughing the floor, with little weith on it. The otherone is almost below your body, kne pointing towards him and almost all your weith on that one. Am I right?

 

If so, then we bacicly have the same stance.

 

Your horse stance is the one you do in siu lim tao. Right. Because then we have the same to stances in our system.

 

What is bare stance and what is goat stance?

 

 

 

"kicks.

 

as i have said, the main thing about wing chun kicks is not what it looks like but how it is done and when you would use a kick."

 

Then how is it done and what do you use it for?

 

"there is a side-kick.

 

(and some have a sort of round kick)"

 

Godt to know

 

"you don't have your bodymass directly behind it.

 

your punch from the shoulder does not have the same quality as the punch from the centre."

 

This is something completely else but, if you could tell me how you would get the bodypower behind your centerline punch, it would be great.

 

"Your parries are much simulere to our crane parries. and others like snake"

 

what ones?

 

please describe."

 

I dont think I can do that so its readable, but il try.

 

If you try to hit me in the face with your fist, I will (maybe) make a circular parrie so that your hand is outside the target. and my snake hand will still rest on your hand(so I can snikeattack you, if you may). My crane would perhaps first go over your fist and the follow it down in a cirkular movement out from target. So in a way im stiking to the opponent. You where right about the mantis hand though.

 

"northern shaolin.

 

that's a bit broad.

 

it would make more sense if you can you give a few names to forms or something that you are doing or have done so that i can have a more useful point of reference?"

 

Long Quan Pai. Its right bellow my belt.

 

I have learned one called "Hung quan pai". I believe its a tiger form(doesnt "hung" means tiger?).

 

I have also learned a five style animal form, I just cant remember the chinese name for it.

 

And then another for graduation, but it went so fast that I couldnt keep up and forgot all about it.

 

"how long have you been training?"

 

For about two years. But I have an injury so I cant train yet. Therefore I read alot about martial arts instead.

 

y'know, this is the first time i've heard anyone who practices a northern style say that wing chun is similar, even in theory, to their style.

 

this includes northern mantis guys."

 

Theres a first time for anything .

[Drunken Monkey]

chi sau is a feeling exercise.

 

it is not the same as pushing hands.

 

mostly it is done with your elbows,

 

not with hand movements.

 

no other style uses the elbows like wing chun.

 

no other style does chi sau like how wing chun does it.

 

again, we only have one stance and that is the goat stance.

 

you yourself said that you don't use this.

 

so how is it similar?

 

and once again, we do not use a cat stance.

 

our forward stance has weight on both feet.

 

it's close to what you might know as a snake stance except the direction is different.

 

"This is something completely else but, if you could tell me how you would get the bodypower behind your centerline punch, it would be great"

 

you use proper body structure.

 

if you have proper body structure and punch from the shoulder then you are not using your structure;

 

you'd be relying on your shoulder joint.

 

it's all about alignment.

 

talk to your teacher.

 

he should know what i'm talking about.

 

"If you try to hit me in the face........ follow it down in a cirkular movement out from target"

 

i guess this is something that i'd have to see.

 

in anycase,

 

as i said, the movement might be the same but the execution (i.e how/why it is done) might not.

 

the things you describe seem to be things you do as a response.

 

in wing chun, parrying and blocking tends to be (with the exception of the initial receiving) from what you feel on your bridges/elbows.

 

this is hard to explain.

 

something that i'd have to show you.

 

long quan pai?

 

hung quan pai?

 

not that it means anything but i have never heard of these before you mentioned them.

 

anyway.

 

it's quite clear that you know very little about wing chun apart from what you have read in books

 

(which books by the way?)

 

and

 

i think i've given more than enough reasons as to why the things you mentioned aren't similar to wing chun.

 

maybe if you read more you'd understand what i mean.

 

i can see that i'd be repeating the same things over and over again (whoa....deja vu ) if i continue so this is where i really call it a day.

 

laters.

[dippedappe]

""again, we only have one stance and that is the goat stance.

 

you yourself said that you don't use this.

 

so how is it similar?"

 

I may have but, now I have found out that I couldnt. Because I dont know what it looks like.

 

snake stance? We have a stance a little like cat stance. However in this one we go all the way down to the floor, with the forwath leg streched almost completely out, and almost sits on the other leg. Is that what you call a snake stance? I have another guess. Iv seen a stance where you spin down so that your legs gets tangeled up. Something like a mix of a cross stance(atleast I think its called that), and the dragon stance.

 

I would like to know if the goat stance is the one you use in the first section of siu lim tao?

 

"long quan pai?

 

hung quan pai?

 

not that it means anything but i have never heard of these before you mentioned them."

 

Thats very alarming to hear...yal here should know of atleast most styles out there, right? The styles history tells that its been handed down from family to family as a secret style, so that noone could make a counter for it. But if its a style noone has ever heard of by now, then Im beginning to question if its good enough...

 

"anyway.

 

it's quite clear that you know very little about wing chun apart from what you have read in books

 

(which books by the way?)"

 

A book written by someone named Gibson....something. its called "why wing chun works". Another is by one of bruce lees students named james yimm lee. Its called "wing chun kung fu"(very original titel.lol). And the last was a book written by someone which was a student of yip mans son....cant remember the titel.

 

"i think i've given more than enough reasons as to why the things you mentioned aren't similar to wing chun."

 

I believe that to. Many of my friends from my schools tells some, not very nice words about wing chun. But I guess its just the same thingy over again..."my dad is better than your dad" stuff.

[Hudson]

Err, first off, Drunken Monkey, I don't know your styles, but you sound like a Wing Chun practicioner. Wing Chun practicioners like to make everything Wing Chun.

 

Yes, Wing Chun and Classical Gung Fu are similar, especially the southern styles. Wing Chun is "refined" and actually is popular due to its simplicity and lack of demands on a modern day practicioner. Its economy of movement is valued however I find most of the things Wing Chun has that make it unique are things other styles take different routes to but end at the same goal.

[aefibird]

Please try and keep this thread on-topic, as it has drifted off and is starting to get a little argumentative.

 

Just to remind people, the posters original question was "what is your way of punching?".

[Zhong Gau]

having been hit by people who use either relaxed at first tight on impact and relaxed all the way through techniques....