J'ever notice...

[shanemm]

no i'm saying that several months of training will have a negligable effect on your fighting ability while your strength will have a much greater short term effect on your fighting ability. oh btw...sorry about the "any jerk" part, i didn't mean to imply that someone who lifts weights is a jerk...

[Vito]

practicality. philosophy has nothing to do with winning a fight, abilities do.

[delta1]

practicality. philosophy has nothing to do with winning a fight, abilities do.

 

I think I'd have to disagree with that! The most effective martial arts are based on some philosophy/philosophies, even if it's just 'Hit him hardest with the mostest!" At the other extreme is Taiji, arguably one of the most effective collection of systems there is- and it is based entirely on Taoist Philosophy. Also, the most formidable fighter is generally the one who believes totally in what he's fighting for. Don't throw out philosophy just to make room for another can of butt-whoop!

[longarm25]

>>>>....However, any jerk who lifts weights will have about my fighting ability for about the first year of training.....

 

Why do you think this? When did "being big" equal "being able to fight"? This is a western concept that I have always wondered about. Just because someone is big doesn't mean that he can fight.

And what about the freaks of nature in the NFL and NCAA how fun would it be to have to defend vs. a 6'6'' 330lb beast that benches 500+ lbs and can move quicker than your average person

[White Warlock]

Sometime back in 1992ish, i was studying aijukikan (danzan-ryu jujutsu) at a local college club. A very buff weightlifter/bodybuilder came in one night. He was a nice guy and joined in on the various stuff with as much courtesy as any other new student. But, along the middle of the sessions, he queried me and a few others, asking the old challenge question of, "how could this stuff possibly work against someone like me?"

 

I went on to discuss how muscle and mass are not, in and of itself, sufficient to counter skill/technique. And even though he showed himself to be physically quick, if he applied himself to attack me, with all his speed, power, and size... without skill, his physical advantages would be used to his disadvantage.

 

As you can imagine, a demonstration or two was needed. Happy to oblige, i started out simple, and asked him what he considered to be the two most advantageous holds he can place on me. He opted for the bear hug and the head lock as the two (typical choices for the unskilled). I asked him to perform both on me, and to do so with full strength and resistance (i.e., resistance to anything i might try). In both cases, he ended up on the ground. In both cases, i showed him how i could have left him on the ground gasping for breath, by having my weight fall on his chest/solar plexus, rather than buffering it for him (I wasn't there to humiliate him or hurt him, and he appreciated that). Without skill, he wasn't able to fully implement his mass and power to ensure his holds were sufficient, nor was he able to realize that the holds he had opted to apply... were not that good.

 

His next discussions were on the avenue of attacks (strikes, etc). I stated that if he could make physical contact, it could very well hurt most practitioners of this style. But, the hard part was to make contact. I also told him that other styles provided significant amounts of training in redirecting and reducing the impact of a strike, by ensuring it doesn't succeed in striking along the centerline (i.e., energy of strike being pivoted out).

 

Again, he wanted a demonstration and again, i happily obliged. At first i stuck with the system we were studying, and demonstrated how his strikes didn't hit me, and how i would both move him and me so that i would be facing part of his back, and he would have to turn about in order to continue his attack... which was sufficient for me to tap him a few times to illustrate strikes i could have committed. Without skill to backup his mass and power, he easily overcommited with his strikes and placed himself slightly off-balance at every turn. More than enough for me to exploit.

 

I then stepped away from the system studied, and directed him to strike me in the chest and face. In both cases, i pivoted with his strike and he stood there somewhat surprised that his full-on strikes had no discernable impact (in truth, it friggin' hurt... but because i pivoted, it was not even remotely close to what it could have been... had i just stood there). Because he did not receive training in 'chasing' the centerline, or in penetrating without overcommiting, his strikes were a combination of point impact and a push. Easily exploitable and at every hit, with my pivoting, he fell off balance.

 

We closed our little side demo with him trying to tackle me, of which i responded with a sprawl, swinging around and behind him then putting him in a chokehold. I told him that my response was from wrestling (sprawl) and judo (chokehold). I also told him that many other systems would encourage simply clocking him as he tried to enter in such a fashion. Because of his lack of training, his tackle was his entire attack, was fully telegraphed, and was top-heavy in implementation. His upper body mass became his Achille's heel.

 

Anyway, what was the topic on again?