Superfoot ......as good as the legend?

[pineapple]

I have the highest respect for Bill Wallace as you don't become a champion by being junk. I feel that the only people qualified to say negative things about any champion kickboxer are people who themselves are at the top level of the kickboxing world.

 

Yes, he used only one leg and he often talked about his injury and his inability to use his other leg but this "handicap" just makes me respect him more as he had to train even harder than your normal fighter without handicaps. I often hear people criticize champions and say how they are not that good so I tell them, "That's great! Since you're better than him, you can be a world champion. Do it and prove that you're a better man."

[Kickbox]

I have trained with Bill for years at the Karate College in VA. Most people don't know that Bill is a super wrestler and started karate only after breaking his knee in judo competition. Bill is a super boxer and the best round/hook/side kicker ever. He will be 60 years old this summer and like his buddy Joe Lewis can still kick but! Back in the day if there had been Thai boxing or MMA/NHB competitions Wallace and Lewis would have still been the world champions. They have what it takes to win.

[KungFuLuvva]

my dad's old sifu, stevie lee swift, was one of bill's best students and was even champion of his weight class, however, he sparred with simon lau, a wing chun GM in hong kong, and got trashed after only seconds. thats when he completely abondoned wallace's methods and took up wing chun. he said that he could easily take his old teachers in their prime, directly refering to bill wallace, and its not like he never sparred with the guy. today he is one of wing chun's elite fighters. so i dont know if i'd buy into wallace so quickly, i guess he was good for kickboxing...

 

https://www.swiftwingchun.org

[Kickbox]

The wing chun fighters that have appeared on the UFC have lasted only seconds. They get set to protect center line and boom they are open to a takedown. When the wing chun fighter meets a boxer boom he gets hit with a left hook, because the boxer doesn't care about the center line. In boxing you move centerline, reposition,move. Mobility always beats the static stance. It's easy to say "I could beat Wallace" but funny thing no one has.

[siufeifei]

It's easy to say "I could beat Wallace" but funny thing no one has.

 

Yes, just as it easy to say

They get set to protect center line and boom they are open to a takedown. When the wing chun fighter meets a boxer boom he gets hit with a left hook, because the boxer doesn't care about the center line.

 

When the wing chun fighter meets a boxer boom he gets hit with a left hook, because the boxer doesn't care about the center line. In boxing you move centerline, reposition,move. Mobility always beats the static stance.

This shows a lack of understanding of what the centreline is in chinese martial arts and what Wing Chun does or doesn't do with it. For your information, the centreline is very much adhered to in boxing. The only difference is how they regard it. When you see a boxer taking control of the centre of the ring and his oppenent circling, then both shifting and re-adjusting to face each other is a clear demonstration of centreline principles. When you see a boxer jab to probe then bring that hand back to cover whilst he crosses with his other hand, that is centreline principles.

 

The only reason they appear to favour a roundline approach is because of the gloves and because of the nature of the sport. If the gloves were not there, the staright line path down the centre would be more open as a target. In this case, his jabs are more likely to actually hit the head or jaw instead of the other boxer's forearm or elbow. Thave different systems of punching and moving but both wing chun and boxing follow very similar principles.

[Kickbox]

O.K. But no one has defeated Bill Wallace. He retired undefeated.

[KungFuLuvva]

kickbox, your obvious lack of knowledge about basic wing chun principles is disgusting, you should look into something before you make rediculous statements like that. go to http://www.swiftwingchun.org/video/videos.html , theres 3 pages of clips, and if you knew anything about wing chun, you would know that a hook would be close to suicide against a good wing chun practitioner. Btw, about the UFC, i've seen the supposed "Wing Chun" people....but if they didnt tell me that i would've never even guessed. they had there backs slunched over and fought like any other UFC monkey. UFC MMA's are a breed of there own, its a lie if they tell you someone from a legit kung fu style is fighting. i have a clip downloaded of a "Wing Chun" person fighting in UFC, he was so bulky that he couldnt even move, not one single WC move in the whole fight. Real GM's of kung fu styles will not go into leagues like UFC because the moves are to dangerous and easily do permanent damage. That's why there's no Wing Chun tournaments, its a deadly art made to kill, not for sporting on tv. theres a big difference.

[siufeifei]

First of all, I did not make any mention of Bill Wallace in my post. I point to where you show a lack of understanding and your retort is to point out something that I did not even mention? Let's leave it at that.

 

I don't like the talk of what would work against a good wing chun practioner or whatever. Talk about what you know from what you have done. In this manner, I don't want to hear about who did, what, when with regards to well known professional fighters. In most cases, they, being professionals, train much harder than you or I. They are exceptional people and using them as a guide to the average martial artist doesn't, in my opinion, work. It also presents an incredibly biased perspective as taking the epitome of a style as example naturally does. After all, we're not all Bill Wallaces, Royce Gracies or the ever popular Mike Tyson.

 

I've seen one example of a supposed Wing Chun praticioner in a UFC match and I also agree that what he presented did not look much like Wing Chun. However, the UFC is a very special environment. A lot of professionals have said taht the rules in the UFC and the enviroment forces the fight to go to the ground. This an area that traditionally, Wing Chun is weak. The logical extension to this is that the person who took part had prepared himself for the fight, whereby he modified his expression of Wing Chun, hence it not looking like it. He did lose but does this mean that Wing Chun is bad or does it simply mean that he was not fully prepared for it? Don't forget that historically speaking, Wing Chun is a very narrowminded and very focused style. The UFC environment is almost the exact opposite of its intended arena of use. So Wing Chun might not work in the UFC, does that mean it isn't any good?

 

On the other hand, if you've seen the clip of Emin Boztepe's "attack" on William Cheung, it's hard to say that there's recognisable Wing Chun there either. Don't forget that we are talking about one of the leading authorities of Yip Man Wing Chun against one of the leading members of Leung Ting's organisation. You would've thought that during the scuffle, at least one discernable Wing Chun technique would be performed.

 

There are Wing Chun tournaments but it only tests the sticky hands. It's not very good and in my opinion, dilutes the intention of sticky hands and really does turn it into a pointless game.

 

I don't believe that the styles we hae today can be graded good or bad. What I do see is the vast differenced between how various styles train. The majority of practicioners of so called traditional styles don't, in my opinion, train hard enough or realistically enough. There seems to be too much emphasis on technique overcoming brute strength but for some reason, many have taken this to mean that you don't need to train strength at all. Look back at the various drawings of Shaolin Martial arts. Look at the old reference books of chinese martial arts. In there you will find lots of descriptions and images of equipment that has the sole purpose of training strength.

 

How did I get onto this topic again?

[Kickbox]

I know what you mean. It is not fair to judge arts by limited experience. In my case I trained as a boxer/kickboxer before taking wing chun lessons from a wing chun instructor. Six months in to the instruction I grew tired of his arrogance. This is not to imply all WC instructors are arrogant. At any rate I asked him to suit up and spar. I smacked him around. My left hook seemed to connect to his head at will. He kept telling me to protect my center line but he could not hit me because I would not stand still. My experience was that this certified WC instructor could not compete with a boxer when we put on gloves and had a full contact match...hands only.. When you mentioned WC and Bill Wallace the kickboxer I immediately thought of my experience in the traditional art of wing chun. Let's say that WC is an exellant art and may fare better in a street fight. In a boxer's ring the boxer has the advantage.

[siufeifei]

So who was this instructor?