Hips...

[foreveryoung001]

(We really hijacked this thread didn't we?)

 

What?! Uh...... Uh..... No we didn't!

 

Go see a doctor, you'll feel better.

 

 

 

Now as I was saying, when I throw a side kick.......

 

[Dijita]

Shorinryu Sensei

 

Is your style a strictly about evading when it comes to defense? I'm curious.

 

Do you use blocks if someone was to kick at your mid thigh? If so how does your style block those?

[Shorin Ryuu]

Goodness, where to start...

We don't use our body weight for attacks, we just use the snap of the hips to make the kicks effective. Not only that, but like I said earlier, if you don't rotate your foot at all, you're going to eventually injure your knee.

 

He didn't say not to rotate your foot (we're talking about the side kick here, I'm assuming). He said not to rotate your foot so it is pointing backwards. You can rotate it even to 90 degrees to the side and not injure your knee. Trust me.

Our tournaments are probably much different. Our tournaments are about hurting the other person sufficeintly enough that they lose the will to fight. If you're not commiting your kicks with a lot of power then you're going to continually kick that person and they are not going to go down.

 

There is a huge, huge difference between using pure strength and generating power. The snap kick will always be quicker than a fully committed kick. The method of generating power is different because it is used like a whip. Most people think they understand it, but they don't. It is an internal whip, not an external one.

We learn to evade attacks as well, but we learn a bit differently. As opposed from shuffling back and away from the opponent, we learn to shuffle at a 45 degree angle towards the opponent. So for example if someone goes for the kick, you shuffle in and strike them in the solar plex with a punch, or you can knee them... but the thing is, there kicks are rendered useless since it is not going to hit you effectively.

 

Actually, Shorinryu Sensei was trying to make a point, not speak specifically for the style. Shorinryu Sensei will be the first to tell you (actually, I may beat him unless I take to long to type this post) that there is no straight forward and back movement (read his post about moving at the angle). Believe me, Shorin Ryu is a grappling and striking style. We do not like to keep our distance.

Hehe, so I'll never be convinced that not pivoting your foot is a good thing. You risk injury, you lose power, and you lose reach. By reach I mean both height and distance.

 

See above about the knee and power. As for reach, we like to get in close. If you kick out at me, I will close in, jam your attack (reduce its effect by staying outside it's effective range of power) and end it all.

 

This isn't an "Anti-you" post. I'm just trying to explain things further.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

We don't use our body weight for attacks, we just use the snap of the hips to make the kicks effective.

What I meant by throwing your body into it, was when you rotate the hips, you are not only using the power of the kick and hips, but also the torque of the body twisting with it.

Not only that, but like I said earlier, if you don't rotate your foot at all, you're going to eventually injure your knee.

 

Well, having done it this way for 30 years as of this coming January, my knees are still fine..so I'll disagree with you on that point. Maybe kicking higher than we do, it might torgue the knee more..but we don't.

Our tournaments are probably much different. Our tournaments are about hurting the other person sufficeintly enough that they lose the will to fight. If you're not commiting your kicks with a lot of power then you're going to continually kick that person and they are not going to go down.

 

We don't have "tournaments" per se. People can attend tournaments if they choose to do so, but it's not required. We do full contact sparring in the dojo periodically using equipment called "Bogu" gear. Similar to kendo armor, but not as ridgid and hard. It is full contact sparring from the belt to the head, sweeps, grabbing and takedowns allowed. You get nailed with a full force punch to the head and you will see stars. Kicking to the head with this gear on is not recommended, as the grill in the front of the face mask is ridgid like a football helmet , but closer together, and it would hurt your foot pretty badly if you kicked it..especially with a roundhouse kick. I don';t know waht bogu geatr is going for now from Shoreido, but when I bout a 2 person set, it was about $400. That was probably 20 years ago, and it's still in good shape (except for the blood stains).

We learn to evade attacks as well, but we learn a bit differently. As opposed from shuffling back and away from the opponent, we learn to shuffle at a 45 degree angle towards the opponent. So for example if someone goes for the kick, you shuffle in and strike them in the solar plex with a punch, or you can knee them... but the thing is, there kicks are rendered useless since it is not going to hit you effectively.

 

We also angle 45 to the front, and to the rear..depending on what you are trying to do.

 

Try this. Stand in a front stance..right foot forward...shoulders/hips square to the front. Leave your front foot alone..don't move it...and then shift your back foot straight to the right..like it was going on a straight line to the right. As you do so, launch your right hand at a strike to your opponents face turing your body and shoulders. Note that the arm will exend in reach. Now, imagine a guy lunging at you with a kick or punch, do that technique just as they move in...you want to wait until the last possible moment though, or you lose your element of surprise. If your opponent doesnt' know what you are doing, you will nail him coming in every time...and nail him hard! Timing is the key. Again, it's easier to show than to descrive. After you have practiced thsi for a while, try it on someone in your class.

Hehe, so I'll never be convinced that not pivoting your foot is a good thing. You risk injury, you lose power, and you lose reach. By reach I mean both height and distance.

 

No to injury, yes to power and reach...but minimal. But you don't over commit yourself either. It's a tradeoff. What's more important..and safer for you in the long run?

[Dijita]

This isn't an "Anti-you" post. I'm just trying to explain things further.

 

No, no worries, I enjoy the clarification and the discussion, so likewise I hope no one is taking my comments as an anti you post or an anti style post.

 

I was talking under the assumption of roundhouse kicks myself, since that is what we use a lot of in our style.

 

From what I was reading, it just sounded like he keeps his foot firmly planted with no rotation.

 

To get more technical, I'd have to say I probably don't pivot my foot straight to the back unless I'm doing a roundhouse to the head of someone much taller than me. Otherwise for most of my kicks I probably pivot my foot about 3/4 back. Sidekicks I pivot my foot 180 to the direction that I am kicking.

 

I'm still interested to know how his style would block leg kicks. Our styles sound so opposite so it is just very interesting and educational to know what is taught differently. For a good part, we condition our bodies to take the hits, and kicks to the legs are almost always blocked by doing leg checks. Which essentially is bringing up your leg to block with the shin.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Try this. Stand in a front stance..right foot forward...shoulders/hips square to the front. Leave your front foot alone..don't move it...and then shift your back foot straight to the right..like it was going on a straight line to the right. As you do so, launch your right hand at a strike to your opponents face turing your body and shoulders. Note that the arm will exend in reach. Now, imagine a guy lunging at you with a kick or punch, do that technique just as they move in...you want to wait until the last possible moment though, or you lose your element of surprise. If your opponent doesnt' know what you are doing, you will nail him coming in every time...and nail him hard! Timing is the key. Again, it's easier to show than to descrive. After you have practiced thsi for a while, try it on someone in your class.

 

Actually, now I'm curious...did you mean shift to the left or to the right? I find it does what you're saying if shift to the left instead. Maybe my brain isn't working right now.

[Dijita]

Thanks ShorinRyu Sensei. I thank you for your information. I think we do a lot more things in common than we think, it's probably trying to describe it on a message board that makes it seem so different.

 

We tend to stand a lot more squared off as well in our style.

 

That equipment you guys use is expensive!! I think I have an idea of what it looks like. Holy cow. We don't usually wear safety equipment. We were helmet and mouth guard in tournaments in colorbelt division, but in the open division I think you only wear mouth guard (oh and the guys wear a cup).

 

Is there a website where I could find out more about your style?

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I forgot to mention, I pivot my feet/hips when I punch as well. It again gives you power, plust reach without "lunching".

 

OK..let's take a look at this. The same principle applies as with kicking. If you hit the guy solidly..no problem..you hit the guy good. But..if you miss..then what? You are overextending and leave yourself wide open if you miss. An example...you lunge at me..throw your shoulders into a punch that you just KNOW is going to wipe my face off...and you don't, because I slapped your punch to the side and stepped out of the way (your 45 degree angle that you mentioned earlier). Now your sitting there for half a second with your entire torso exposed, off balance because I made your body move sideways a bit, and I have you dead to rights. Basically..if you connect..GREAT. If you don't, and we work a lot on making sure you don't..then your butt is mine buddy!

(I hope I'm not coming across as rude or disrespectful, I really like this conversation because it is interesting)

 

Not at all. I enjoy comparing techniques with people. Like I said, it's a whole lot easier to "show" than to describe on here. I do this a lot at tournaments I judge/ref at. Other black belts (usually TKD) ask me to show them something of what we do, as shorinryu is pretty rare in these parts, and this is generally where I go because it is usually a pretty alien concept to them.

[Dijita]

When I punch, and pivot my feet, I can pull it back easily and I'm still squared off with my opponent.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Shorinryu Sensei

 

Is your style a strictly about evading when it comes to defense? I'm curious.

 

I need a secretary to take dictation and type these replies...I'M FALLING BEHIND!!!

 

Do we strictly evade? No, it's more of misdirecting and avoiding your opponents force. We don't like to resist force with force. Leverage, angles, accuracy, and good technique are the main points of emphasis, as is evasion...or not being there when the kick/punch is. We liek the other guy to be the aggressor, as shorinryu is primarily (not always though) a counterfighting system.

Do you use blocks if someone was to kick at your mid thigh? If so how does your style block those?

 

It is a major no-no to try to use your hands/arms to block a low kick. It places your head totally at the mercy of your opponent. We do several things aginst kicks like that to the thigh. One, is to block a kick to my leg with my own leg. Shins buddy...shins! Yeah, it hurts at first...but you get used to it. Moving out of the way is another method. We put out weight on the balls of our feet generally..or at least, the front foot. This allows us to move backwards very quickly because we're "primed" to push backwards if needed. Another method, if your opponent is slow and telegraphs his kick..is to move in (and angle) on him. he can't kick effectively if you're right on top of him.

 

OK..on to the next! HELP!!!