MenteReligieuse Posted October 12, 2004 Posted October 12, 2004 1" is about the maximum that you want them to extend past your elbow...so they sound just right for you. Any longer, and they will be cumbersome and awkward to use. but you could do painfull pokes with elbow strikes in cqc...no? ok don't listen to me! im total nub
Shorin Ryuu Posted October 12, 2004 Posted October 12, 2004 Holy cow, Martial Man. Just speak in plain English. If you want to ask if the material/structure of the sai was not well suited against the material/structure of the sword, just say so. I've never seen the word "per" used so many times in so many differing situations... j/k ... I'm just giving you crap. I think it could be used against the sword. I was just saying it wasn't as common because more people would be likely to have a bo than a sword. Sure you might have the occasional rowdy Satsuma samurai, but it just seems to me that it would be more common for someone to attack with a staff than with a sword. Either way (since I am not basing the commonality of a bo vs. a sword off of anything reliable), it would be difficult for a a sword to cut through an iron sai. Like the kama, there is constant body change anyway, so it isn't as if you should be relying on the sai to prevent the sword from cutting you, in an ideal situation. Sure, a superior sword may cut through another one, but that is more do specifically how you would block against a sword strike with another sword and how thin a katana is. Martial Arts Blog:http://bujutsublogger.blogspot.com/
47MartialMan Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 So the sword would be of stronger material?
Shorinryu Sensei Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 So the sword would be of stronger material? The sword/katana woukld be made of much finer, better quatilty steel of course. than a sai would...but normally with a sai, you don't block directly against a sword in a equal energy vs energy strike. More of a deflection movement at an angle. As I understand it though, a katana wasn't that strong (brittle?), especially on the sides of the blade. Against something else steel...I'm not sure. My nightly prayer..."Please, just let me win that PowerBall Jackpot just once. I'll prove to you that it won't change me!"
Shorin Ryuu Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 So the sword would be of stronger material? When I wrote this: "Sure, a superior sword may cut through another one, but that is more do specifically how you would block against a sword strike with another sword and how thin a katana is." I was referring to a sword against a sword ("sword" being the antecedent to "one"). I assume that is where the confusion is from, as my post did not really indicate that I thought a sword would cut through an iron sai (and hence your assumption that the sword is made of stronger material). If I was wrong, then that is just weird... As I mentioned and as Shorinryu Sensei more appropriately clarified, you wouldn't be bracing your sai against the full swing of a sword while blocking anyway. Perhaps you are just asking for the sake of prolonging discussion, so forgive me if I am repeating things you know anyway. Martial Arts Blog:http://bujutsublogger.blogspot.com/
harleyt26 Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 In the style of kobudo I practice all blocks with the sai are done at an angle either to slide the attack off as a deflection or to slide the attacking weapon into the tines of the sai to lock, trap or redirect the attacking weapon.We are never taught to block at a nintey degree angle with the sai,it is a short weapon and will not have the neccesary leverage to stop a weapon with more reach or one that would be handled with two hands.The high block for instance if done flat over your head in an attempt to block a shomen uchi or downward head strike(not an exact translation)from a bo or sword will result in an incredible headache from your own sai if not done at an angle.It is my understanding that the early sai were made from tie rods from vehicles in the area(possibly military jeeps).I do not know if a sword could cut through a tie rod they are pretty hard. Tom Hodges migi kamae,migi bo kihon ichi
47MartialMan Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 So the sword would be of stronger material? When I wrote this: "Sure, a superior sword may cut through another one, but that is more do specifically how you would block against a sword strike with another sword and how thin a katana is." I was referring to a sword against a sword ("sword" being the antecedent to "one"). I assume that is where the confusion is from, as my post did not really indicate that I thought a sword would cut through an iron sai (and hence your assumption that the sword is made of stronger material). If I was wrong, then that is just weird... Ok, now I understand. The sword cannot cut through the sai. As I mentioned and as Shorinryu Sensei more appropriately clarified, you wouldn't be bracing your sai against the full swing of a sword while blocking anyway. Perhaps you are just asking for the sake of prolonging discussion, so forgive me if I am repeating things you know anyway. No, no prolonging, just trying to interpret. So, the angle or the swing of both will determine the durability as well as the opponents?
Shorin Ryuu Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 .It is my understanding that the early sai were made from tie rods from vehicles in the area(possibly military jeeps).I do not know if a sword could cut through a tie rod they are pretty hard. Tom Hodges Um, I don't think that is a plausible explanation for the origin of the sai, as the sai were used before the invention of the automobile. Now I have heard one theory where the sai was supposed to be the pin connecting wooden carts or something, but I am of the opinion that the sai was of Chinese origin and always used as a weapon on Okinawa rather than being modified from some sort of everday implement. Metal was pretty expensive on Okinawa... Martial Arts Blog:http://bujutsublogger.blogspot.com/
Shorinryu Sensei Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 .It is my understanding that the early sai were made from tie rods from vehicles in the area(possibly military jeeps).I do not know if a sword could cut through a tie rod they are pretty hard. Tom Hodges Um, I don't think that is a plausible explanation for the origin of the sai, as the sai were used before the invention of the automobile. Now I have heard one theory where the sai was supposed to be the pin connecting wooden carts or something, but I am of the opinion that the sai was of Chinese origin and always used as a weapon on Okinawa rather than being modified from some sort of everday implement. Metal was pretty expensive on Okinawa... I was going to comment on that also, but Shorin Ryuu beat me to it...as usual! Good news here! I have just re-established contact as of this morning, with one of my instructors from quite some time ago! This guy is the "real deal" and has a great background in this system. I'm looking forward to renewing our association and friendship. Sorry...off the topic (what's the topic again? ), but I just needed to share that with you guys. My nightly prayer..."Please, just let me win that PowerBall Jackpot just once. I'll prove to you that it won't change me!"
47MartialMan Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 I have to agree. Okinawa was limited with resources. I have read that the sai was an imported farming "pitchfork", that the shaft was removed.
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