RyuKyu Kempo?

[Shorinryu Sensei]

kempocos...can you perhaps shed some light on what you have been taught, or heard about Dillman's connections to OSensei Soken please?

 

His other training with other people isn't my concern with him...only what he says he learned from OSensei is my "beef" with him.

[kempocos]

For all his faults I would like to start with at the time he met Master Soken Dillman was a top tournament fighter and owned the kata division for many years he was not just some guy off the street. This was when tournaments were not the tippy tap sparring and all flash kata no substance things that most are today. I do not agree with his approach to the concepts of KYUSHO nad TUITE this because I started in Oyatas linage and then with Muncy/Moneymaker.

 

What I was told by folks who were ranked very high in his org and were there when he started his KEMPO is that from Master Soken he was shown some of the Vital Point information as documented in the Bubishi.

 

Then when Taikia Oyata came to the US at the request of his top students Dillman for about a year and a half attaended some seminars. For reasons I do not know Oyata ranked him as a 7th Dan which allowed him to give rank to his students. It could be because Dillman already held a high ranking in another style.

[Sauzin]

As of current I believe the Ryu Kyu Kempo trademark is still Dillmans. Regardless he proliferated the use of the term to describe his art so 95% of the time when you hear it, it's his system that is being talked about. To further support this, Dillmans karate is the only karate I know of that markets itself as "pressure point karate" which was used to describe it in the original post.

 

My experience with Dillman's students has been very hit and miss. That's the real trick of the thing. Dillman's system isn't really a system. Most people who teach under Dillman have backgrounds in other arts. Sure Dillmans system has kata, but they aren't emphasized or even practiced in some schools. Rather teachers take the kata from their old system and apply Dillman’s interpretation to them. This creates a huge variance in the quality of instructors in his "system".

 

I would suggest going in to it with a bit of skepticism. Pressue points aren't some big secrete that have been discovered in the last decade or two. Their use exists in every system. Don't assume just because they can hit someone on the neck and knock them out that the system is effective. You can do that too, this isn't what a martial art is about. Simple fact of the matter is, if you don't train repetitive technique into muscle memory you will never be able to perform it when it counts. No matter how many pressure points you know, you won't be able to use them without proper techniques, movement, and stance work. These things come from good kata. Without focus on kata, everything else is mute.

 

Its like working one ground fighting joint lock. It won't matter if you're a master at that lock. If you don't have a good basic ground fighting base to work off of, you will never be able to get your opponent into that lock. Same thing with pressure points.

 

Be careful.

 

-Paul

[Sauzin]

For reasons I do not know Oyata ranked him as a 7th Dan which allowed him to give rank to his students. It could be because Dillman already held a high ranking in another style.

 

Oyata claims this never happened and has disavowed Dillman entirely stating that Dillman only took 3 seminars from him and made the rest up. Either way Dillmans rank is not currently recognized by Oyata. Other then the 10th degree certificate that was signed by all his higher ranking students, Dillman's only legit rank is a shodan in Shotokan.

[AngelaG]

I'm sorry but RyuKyu Kempo is not Dillman's and there is nothing wrong with studying PPs in relation to MA's if done in the proper manner. In self defence you don't want to rely on a no touch KO, but study 5 element theory and a small guy can easily floor a large guy.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

For all his faults I would like to start with at the time he met Master Soken Dillman was a top tournament fighter and owned the kata division for many years he was not just some guy off the street. This was when tournaments were not the tippy tap sparring and all flash kata no substance things that most are today.

 

Yes, I understand that, and I have no concerns or problems with Dillman other than the claims he has made in regards to OSensei Soken and the "secret" techniques he claimed he learned from OSensei.

I do not agree with his approach to the concepts of KYUSHO nad TUITE this because I started in Oyatas linage and then with Muncy/Moneymaker.

 

Since I am not familiar with Sensei Oyata's teachings or system, and haven't heard of Sensei's Muncy or Moneymaker before, I'm assuming (Could be wrong here) that you're inferring that those people taught legitimate tuite techniques to you prior to your training with Dillman's organization, and because of that background, you weren't impressed with what you learned from Dillmans teachings? Is this accurate?

 

 

What I was told by folks who were ranked very high in his org and were there when he started his KEMPO is that from Master Soken he was shown some of the Vital Point information as documented in the Bubishi.

 

It sounds like Dillman's story isn't really stressed or talked about in detail to much in your classes. I've read in the past quite a few storys in various martial arts magazines about Dillman and his claims regarding his training with OSensei Soken. There are also several threads on another excellent forum (ebudo.com) about this subject. None of them are favorable towards his claims.

 

Thank you for you input.

[kempocos]

I do not or have not trained in DILLMANS system. I have trained in OYATAS linage and Muncy/Moneymakers who I recieved my shodan from.

 

I have been to one Dillman seminar and that was eneough for me. Rick Momeymaker and Tom Muncy had been with Dillman and had done much of his early reserach, they split due to confilts in how the concepts should be used.

 

RYUKYU KEMPO is used by many folks not from the Dillman group to describe the art they teach, one is Mike Minor a 6th DAN under OYATA his site is WWW.RUSHU.COM the history of RYUKYU KEMPO can be found there.

 

I currently train in ISSHINRYU but still get together with Rick Moneymaker to work on the KYUSHO and TUITE. But still to date Oyata has the best information on this.

[kempocos]

For reasons I do not know Oyata ranked him as a 7th Dan which allowed him to give rank to his students. It could be because Dillman already held a high ranking in another style.

 

Oyata claims this never happened and has disavowed Dillman entirely stating that Dillman only took 3 seminars from him and made the rest up. Either way Dillmans rank is not currently recognized by Oyata. Other then the 10th degree certificate that was signed by all his higher ranking students, Dillman's only legit rank is a shodan in Shotokan.

 

I had heard that Dillman named his style RYUKYU KEMPO because of the rank with Oyata. Now the fact that Oyata changed his styles name when Dillman hit the seminar circuit makes sense.

[Little Dragon]

wait wait wait..you people are going off a ropic alittle...so basically can sumone summarize ryukyu kempo for me?

 

and whats the deal with this dillman dude?

[AngelaG]

wait wait wait..you people are going off a ropic alittle...so basically can sumone summarize ryukyu kempo for me?

 

and whats the deal with this dillman dude?

 

Basically it's still down to the specific dojo. Go along and see whether it is * or not. My mate does the traditional okinawan kata. He also does bunkai, kihon and kata. If there are pressure points, meridians and 5 element theory mentioned don't be put off straight away. Researched properly these things can really enhance your art. If they start talking about no touch KOs etc. probably best to make a run for it.