Differences between Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do

[tommarker]

Tom, please relax a little bit. I know the books, and it's right next to me, and I know all of the wonderful and highly talented people you've listed who probably don't want their names drug into an Internet arguement.

 

When I used the term "outdated" in quotes, I was attempting to indicate that I didn't necessarily think this was true. The truth is, there are a lot of people out there who have spent a lot of time trying to figure out exactly where and by what means the forms became what they are today. Those people have mostly searched in vain for dead forms which no one has any written evidence of, and probably could have been better served practicing more.

 

When I say the forms didn't come from China, what I MEAN is that the form, as we know it is not practiced in China. Yes there are forms that look similar to pyung ahn 2 in China, but they aren't the same. I want to be very specific about that.

 

Why? Because for the longest time, it was an accepted fact that Hwang Kee learned all the forms in China. That was the party line. Only recently has the truth become a little more clear. Now we know that the forms were learned from books on Okinawan Karate that Hwang Kee had access to while working for the railroad. And most likely, he probably trained with a few karate people as well along the way. We'll never know for sure, as he has since passed on.

 

I'm not arguing the Chinese/Shaolin roots, I'm merely saying the route of transmission came VIA Okinawa, and I think we're all trying to make sure we're not saying otherwise. This is a touchy subject. However, I really do think we're all saying (more or less) the same thing and I'm neither taking a stand against you or Grandmaster Shin with my opinion.

 

If I offended you, it was not my intent, and I apologize.

[tommarker]

OK, back on track...

 

Some differences I've noted between TKD and TSD over the years:

 

push/pull movement of hips seems to be more emphasized in TSD than TKD.

 

TSD stances tend to be deeper and more stable, while TKD tends to have higher stances that emphasize mobility.

 

The 'sine wave' motion is non-existent in TSD (and most TKD, i realize)

 

TKD tends to have more linear motion with circular techniques (moving forward with roundhouses and wheel kicks) where TSD seems to have more circular movements and linear techniques (side step, reverse punch or side kick) but this doesn't always hold true.

 

Junior ranking TKD fighters tend to be a lot faster and more aggressive when they go on the offensive than their TSD counterparts who tend to only throw 1-2 techniques defensively.

 

TKD players tend to develop much harder and faster kicks at an earlier level, where a lot of students are devloping their speed and accuracy at 1st gup.

 

TSD people obviously tend to punch more, use backfists, spinning backfists, spear hands, chops, grabs and sweeps more.

 

A lot of these are purely anecdotal, and I've never taken TKD, but over the years, I've watched the other TKD clubs at our University closely. They do some things that create very powerful students that I've incorporated into my teaching (various kicking drills) and I'm sure that they've taken somethings from us as well.

[try81]

Tommarker -

 

You did not offend me in the least bit. Maybe I need to watch the tone I use, but I was just caught up in thee debate and by no means took it personal.

 

I just have a firm belief that the roots of Korean and Japanese arts have a firm foundation in the Chinese arts. I didn't mean to sound like a jerk to you or anyone else on this forum.

 

For now on I will watch my tone and will try not to stir up any confrontational debates . I have great respect for your instructor and Master Jorgenson. I have known them both since I have been a little kid and didn't mean to bring Mr. Genna into the debate as any disrespect to him or you.

 

So you didn't offend me, and I hope I didn't offend you and I look foward to discussing topics with you in the future.

 

Tang Soo!

[Thruhiker]

Sorry that I haven't responded. I have been deer hunting the last month and a half.

 

Thanks for all the replies I see I sturred the pot a little.

[SBN Doug]

I'm bringing this back to the front of the forum, as there seem to be a lot of questions regarding this topic lately.

[JaseP]

In response to this thread:

 

http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=17786

 

The main differences, as many have indicated before, between Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do, involve the fact that Tae Kwon Do is practiced primarily as a sport and not as a traditional martial art. Application is often different, Tae Kwon Do usually does not emphasize forms as much, and TKD practitioners generally gravitate towards the Ho Gu type Olympic rules sparring rather than point fighting in competition.

 

Tae Kwon Do was "created" in the early 60s from the four primary Kwans (Schools,... as in schools of training less so than an actual particular Do Jang) and several other smaller Kwans. There was, shortly after WWII, a movement to unify the martial arts in Korea that was interupted by the Korean War. After the Korean War, the movement began to gain momentum with most schools signing on to the unification. There were some power struggles and personality conflicts, combined with artistic differences, that couldn't be resolved,... and the Moo Duk Kwan (Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do) split in half,... with 1/2 staying Tang Soo Do, and the other half going over to become the Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan. Estimates are that the Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do practitioners made up as many as 1/3 to 1/2 of the Tae Kwon Do practitioners at the time (the original Moo Duk Kwan was spread by railroad workers who made up a large percentage of its early practitioners, and so gained a high degree of popularity). Later, the Moo Duk Kwan fractured again when Masters who came to the United States felt slighted at who was put in charge. Hence, now we have Federations like the World Tang Soo Do Federation, The international Tang Soo Do Federation, etc., etc.

 

As for techniques, Tae Kwon Do practitioners tend to hit with edges of the foot that inflict less trauma. They tend not to emphasize punches like in Tang Soo Do. Their stances are typically higher. Blocks are emphasized to a lesser degree. In short, Tang Soo Do tends to be more self defense oriented than Tae Kwon Do.