The military, jujitsu, front kick and wet paper bags...

[WapCaplet]

Here's something that happened at the dojo last week. I'm curious to get your feedback.

 

First, let me set the stage:

 

Our Shotokan Karate association is family focused and non-competitive. Well, we have kata competitions and there is a kumite course for contact sparring, but on the whole, the association isn't competition focused. It's a really non-threatening place to learn karate where most people soon realize that they don't have to prove anything; they can just practice and learn karate at their own pace. Obviously you don't advance through the belt ranks unless you know the material and can demonstate it accurately, but the emphasis is on training and learning, not belt color.

 

Anyway, last week a new family joined our club. It was a man and wife and their four kids, aged around 10-17. We were doing some basic front snap kick drills with punching-bags and several of us noticed that each time the father approached the bag, he really gave it everything he had. When we did a few basic punches first, he had his hand open (no fist) and threw his shoulder into the punch, turning his head down so he was no longer looking at the target, and only making a fist at the last second. It seemed kind of obvious that he was trying to hit the bag as hard as he could, and didn't really care for the instruction Sensei had JUST given on how to do a shotokan basic punch. Whatever. We chalked it up to him being new and realized that we were all there at one point or another and just continued to encourage him.

 

So then we start practicing front snap. The Sensei is giving pointers like make sure you contact with the ball of your foot, raise your knee high and get your hips under to increase the height of the kick, make sure you push your foot in to the target and try to avoid simply flicking your foot upwards, etc, etc. Anyway, I'm standing in front of this guy and he leans over and whispers to me "You couldn't kick your way out of a wet paper bag with that kick." He wasn't referring to me specifically, but rather was making a comment about that kind of kick. I turned to him and said "Well, I think I'll reserve judgement on that unless you can prove otherwise." At which point he leans in again and says "I'm a 3rd Degree Black Belt, Grand Master, in Jujitsu. I used to teach the black arts to the Military (Canadian military)" That shut me up for a few minutes. Mainly because the guy had such an attitude that I didn't really feel like there was anything I could say that would change anything. I asked him why he was taking shotokan karate then, if he felt the basic kick was a waste of time, and he said that he wanted his kids to learn good basic karate in a family environment.

 

Anyway, the guy seemed like a really nice guy, except for that comment. He even came up to me and a couple of my friends after class, shook our hands, and gave us his resume again (verbally) "I'm a 3rd degree jujitsu master, blah blah blah." It really seemed like he was bragging but we couldn't figure out what the point would be. We were like "He doesn't have to prove anything here. What's the deal with this guy?"

 

It also got me thinking about the basic kick. I don't know anything about jujitsu, but I'm pretty sure the basic front snap is a useful kick. A friend of mine said they teach that kick to marines. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but it seems like the general consensus is that the front snap is a good kick.

 

Ultimately I just felt like this guy insulted shotokan, insulted our sensei and insulted the dojo with that comment. I thought that someone who was a 3rd degree ANYTHING would have learned respect and discipline through their years of training, enough to keep such comments in check.

 

Anyway, the guy's registration to the association eventually got denied (him and his entire family unfortunately) because he couldn't validate any of the jujitsu claims he was making, and the head of our association felt that we just didn't need someone that competitive in the association. Sensei also said that the military does not hand out dans, so he doesn't know how this guy gets away with claiming he's a 3rd degree black belt. The guy couldn't provide ANY documentation to support his claims.

 

So I guess I'm curious about a few things:

 

Jujitsu students and teachers out there - what are your opinions about the front snap kick? How about the way he first punched? Would a 3rd degree jujitsu master have performed this way? Is that how jujitsu works?

 

Fathers out there - what are your opinions about a father who makes such claims in full view of his family? Is he telling the truth? What kind of message is he sending to his kids?

 

Senseis out there - how do you feel about the guy's registration being denied?

 

Everyone out there - how would you have responded?

 

Let me know what you all think...

 

Wap

[P.A.L]

My sensei is a jujitsu/karate Master (sensei Craig) and front snap kick is one of the main drills we do on makiwara. as he allways says it can stop an attack.

 

same about the punch fist should be closed in all time of makiwara drills, although the body goes from lose to hard. Go- Ju

 

what I didn't like was refusing his application no matter what ,they could let him in at least provisional.

[WapCaplet]

They let him in provisionally at first, but eventually denied his application when he could not support the claims he was making. Our head instructor has been taking and teaching karate for about 45 years, and he said he has seen people like this before. He gave him a chance, but after the comments and the fact that he could not support the claims he was making, Sensei felt it was just the kind of person he didn't need in the association. He doesn't need the numbers that badly.

 

Wap

[Sasori_Te]

I think it would depend on whether or not the guy was trying to undermine the instructor at every turn. I've seen a lot of people run their mouth in the beginning but they tend to be humbled after awhile. Of course, this guy could have had some other issues going on. I've met compulsive liars that can make something up on the spot and tell you it's the truth even if they know that you know better. It's a bit sad really. Anyway, I'm not sure I have a point here so I'll stop now. It's too bad that these situations come up.

[thaiboxerken]

The snap kick isn't really a powershot, but if it's well timed and placed, it can serve to knock the wind out of a person or distract them enough to open up other opportunities of attack. A kick doesn't have to be powerful to work, just use it for the right reason. I prefer a foot-jab myself, but a snap kick to the groin is useful.

 

The Jujitsu guy seems to be an idiot.

[Shane]

I dont know how the canadian military trains with defensive tactics but I will tell you from experience in the U.S. Military (Army) that we use to train Jujitsu techniques, but not as a system and at no time were we using a ranking system other than that of our military rank. After getting out I worked for the federal government and underwent defensive tactics training with the U.S. Department of Defense, U.S. Marines and U.S. Naval Security Forces once again they were not using a system only techniques from a variety of styles. As far as this guy being denied entry into your organization, I cant really comment on because I dont have enough info. Now the front snap kick can be a great weapon and I teach it to my Jujitsu students. Our class is a Mixed Arts class based on Jujitsu but then again Jujitsu is what every works and the front snap kick can be effective when used properly. The funny thing is that this guy sounded closed minded and thats funny for most Jujitsu artists since its an art designed from combat and is based on what works, part of keeping Jujitsu up to standard with its true roots is being open minded and adapting to change. I know if I was to join your dojo I would be trying to learn anything and everything your instructor is willing to show me. JUST MORE TRICKS TO ADD TO MY BASKET!!!!!

 

I have ran into a few people who seem to become experts after 2-3 months of training. Its funny because they really believe it, but they have not even started to perfect the techniques.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I've probably had a dozen (give or take) people come into my dojo claiming all sorts of rank. One guy told me he was a "master", and wanted to take classes from me. HUH? When I asked him why, he told me he had doen many "covert" operations and there were a lot of people looking for him, and he wanted to train and hide out in another school. Then he asked if I needed an assistant instructor...he was available. I said "Well, let's see what you know first", and ran hinm therough soem very basic techniques. Stances, kicks, punches, etc. Brother, this guy was BAD!

 

Another guy came in claiming a brown belt in soem Japanese system I've never heard of and asked if he coudl start out in MY class as a brown belt. He couldn't furnish any proof of rank, his sensei's name or number..basically...nothing. So, I told him no.,,he had to start out as white belt like everybody else.

 

You just have to humor these people mostly. Sometimes, give them a swift kick out the door, and other times...just let them know that you know they are lying, so SHUTUP!!!

 

With this guy you're talking about, I think your sensei made the right decision. It's one thing for him to make unsubstansiated claims of rank and mastery, and another to get on the floor and see what he has. If he just said it once, and the subject was dropped...fine. But if he continued to bring it up, I would have booted him.

[thaiboxerken]

Weird, everytime I move, I'm more than happy to start out in the beginner class. Heck, working the basics is fun for me since the basics are the foundation of a martial art.

 

Guro Inosanto strapped on a "white belt" over 50 times, and he still does when he trains in a new art.

[Shane]

Thats interesting about Guro Inosanto. I have never met him but only hear great things. I dont see the problem with straping on the white belt and just shuting up and learning. What you already know you already know you can only learn more

[Drunken Monkey]

every time i've walked into a new palce with the intent to learn, i start from the beginning.

 

if i don't, i just end up doing my stuff in their class as opposed to learning their stuff.

 

even when i've gone into a new wing chun place, i've started on the most basics just so that hey can at least see/feel what my hands are like.

 

after all, even the same style has little differences.

 

especially with something like wing chun, where how you do things is different to what you originally learnt.

 

a new class means another 'original' to work from.

 

maybe it's an ego thing.

 

i know wing chun kinda instills a certain mentality into you.

 

for a start, during your training, you learn to not judge people because with wing chun, you just can't tell who is good or not by looking at them.

 

in turn, this means that you too are a little cautious of 'bragging' and you kinda look at everyone with care not to underestimate.

 

our judge is in the hands, not in our words.

 

and all too often, the ones who say the most have the least to show.