"Honorary" Rank Certificates

[Shorinryu Sensei]

This is directed specifically to those people, usually instructors, taht have received "Honorary" Rank Certificates in another system.

 

I'll define "honorary rank" as a certificate for rank in a system/style of martial arts which you did not study/train in.

 

I'll give you 2 examples from my own personal experience. In 1989 or so, a friend of mine who was a tested 3rd degree black belt in TKD, but was claiming a 6th degree BB because he formed his own association (American Korean Karate Association) was up in my area on business and came by my class to watch. In the middle of class, this person asked if he could talk to my class, and of course I said "Yes."

 

He said many nice things about me for a few minutes, then reached into his briefcase and pulled out a certificate from his association and awarding me a 3rd Dan BB in his system. I was, at that time, a 2nd Dan in my own system. I did not ask for this "honor" and was a bit flustered by it, but did my best to be graceful (ME? GRACEFUL?) and appreciative. By the way, nowhere on my certificate does it say anywhere that it is honorary. It is the same exact certificate that he awarded any other black belt in his system.

 

After the class, he and I went out for a beer, and the first thing he asked me was.."Since I gave you that 3rd Dan in my system, would you give me a 2nd Dan in yours?" I was taken back right there, and told him that I was sorry, but I couldn't do that because I don't believe in "honorary certificates of rank". Rather, I felt you needed to work for that rank under a legitimate sensei. If he wanted to join my class, then yes, after he'd gone through the ranks like everybody else, I would give him the rank that he deserved. Since he was a friend, he didn't push it any further.

 

A few months later I happened to be in his area and stopped into his dojo to say "Hi". As I stood in the hallway watching his class, I noticed against the opposite wall about a dozen certificates. Upon reading them, I found out that my friend had all of a sudden gotten high rank in about 10-12 different systems. I'm talking 5-6th degree black belts here people. All of them were obviously bogus, as I knew this guy quite well, and there was no way on this planet that he had earned those ranks legitimately.

 

My friend confirmed this after he finished his class. They were all "You give me rank in your organization, and I'll give you rank in mine" exchanges. I'm sorry, but that really bothers me.

 

So anyway, I have a 3rd degree black belt that I have worked hard at in my chosen system, and a 3rd degree black belt in a system I have never taken one class in. I show that bogus certificate to my students periodically to show them the * that can be found at times in the martial arts.

 

Anybody else had experiences like this?

[Shane]

This post is a perfect example of why certificates really dont hold much ground in the martial arts. Being legit come from you as a person as a intructor or student. Someone could show me 10 high ranking black belt certificates but I'm really not even going to pay attention to them at all. I will see for my self during training sessions. I have not had to experience this to much, but that is because the people I train with choose not to get political with the martial arts. My Instructor did not even issue certificates with rank. So when ever asked to show proof of rank, we simply will tell you to come on in during class and train with us. I could show you a certificate or talk about how good my classes are all day long, but the only way your going to be able to tell is to come on in and check it out for yourself. Anyways I'm getting off of the subject, I know this type of thing going on, and certificates mean alot to the new student with no experience looking to join a school so these pieces of paper proabably help get people in the door of a dojo. But I know a piece of paper is not going to keep them coming threw that door.

[delta1]

I'll define "honorary rank" as a certificate for rank in a system/style of martial arts which you did not study/train in.

 

...a friend of mine who was a tested 3rd degree black belt in TKD, but was claiming a 6th degree... reached into his briefcase and pulled out a certificate from his association and awarding me a 3rd Dan BB in his system.... nowhere on my certificate does it say anywhere that it is honorary... he asked..."Since I gave you that 3rd Dan in my system, would you give me a 2nd Dan in yours?" I was taken back right there, and told him that I was sorry, but I couldn't do that because I don't believe in "honorary certificates of rank"... Anybody else had experiences like this?

 

No, I've only heard of things like this. It's sad, really.

 

But HAT'S OFF to you for standing by your principles in what had to be a tough and embarassing situation!

[Mu Ryuk]

HAT'S OFF to you for standing by your principles in what had to be a tough and embarassing situation!

 

I second that. It's depressing that things like this happen.

 

Bleh.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Thanks. It was unexpected, and yes, it was actually embarassing to me in front of my class. The next class I talked to them about it and explained to them my feelings on it. As I said, at the time, that other guy was a friend. A few years after that, he became the opposite. He died in 1998, and had promoted himself up to 9th Dan by that point.

[zerohour]

I read a column on this subject in an Australian martial arts magazine fairly recently. The author of the column wrote that he received a package from Germany, from a 10th dan, containing certificates. Apparently they had certified him as an 8th dan in four different organisations! Two of those offered were 8th dan outright, the other two were honourary ranks - one of those making him an Honourary Grandmaster, and three of those granting him life memberships. He wrote that he was "unable to accept in good conscience this seemingly generous gesture" as he had done no grading or even presented any credentials to the man, or even heard of him or the organisations that he represents.

 

He also wrote about an organisation who felt that their blackbelts were not of sufficiently high ranking - so they formed a subgroup of 1st and 2nd dans, who then "proceeded to cross-promote each other, signing each other's grading certificates. By the end of it all there was a new bunch of 5th, 6th, and 7th dans."

 

ALSO (this is getting long, but this is a good one!), the author says that he'd heard of other cases "where students have promoted their own sensei to a high rank, at times skipping a Dan or two in the process, to make room underneath him for the students' own promotion."

 

Unbelievable. Surely these people can't feel that they've truly earnt their titles. Obviously it's a shame that it's happening, but I can get a laugh out of these situations, and the people involved, because they're the ones missing out on the feeling of accomplishment you get by actually EARNING your belt. Suckers!

[Shorin Ryuu]

These only make me sad because there are so many beginners that lack a critical eye for martial arts instructors that get duped into these kinds of schools.

[White Warlock]

Ugh!

 

I've had 2nd hand tellings of these things happening and suspected on many a visit to one school or another, but i had never actually seen it personally. I've received a brown belt, black belt, and black sash before, but none of these included a certificate, and the brown and black belts were merely for entry into competitions and returned immediately thereafter, while the 'plain' black sash was a gesture of respect from a friend/instructor that i would never cheapen by wearing.

 

I can't rightly say how i would have reacted, if someone had handed me a certificate, but i'm pretty damn sure i would be insulted if they later asked me to give them one in return. Cheapens the gesture to no end.

[Master Jules]

Y'all have heard me say it before....but Ill say it again......"Belt hold up pants....get on mat and train".......

[47MartialMan]

This had happened to me. The guy "put me on the spot" in front of his class. I gave the certifcate back with a kind reply.