Ancient Pankration vs. Modern MMA

[Cross_Trainer]

I've been doing some research lately about the ancient form of Pankration (not the modern stuff that's just another MMA calling itself by an ancient name, with a few of its principles retained). Surprisingly modern art for 2600 yrs ago...punching bags, boxing gloves ("spheres"), weightlifting (well, boulders, actually) etc...and surprisingly complete as well, with breaks, kicks, punches, submissions, and so on through the gamut. Of course, now we have the advantages of superior nutrition, much more information on physical fitness, knowledge of pretty much all of the world's major fighting systems available to us at the click of a mouse--all of the advantages from modern technology.

 

On the other hand, the Greeks had several hundred years to practice and perfect pankration in an essentially no-rules atmosphere, (there WERE rules against biting and eye-gouging, but even these were frequently disobeyed--from what I've heard many of these conditions also exist in modern Burmese boxing), and so probably knew what worked and what didn't. It is unlikely that they knew that much less about body mechanics, at least when it came to a sport like this, than we do in modern times. Granted, we have access to a few more moves, more techniques, and do it more 'scientifically', but it couldn't be THAT much of an improvement over hundreds of years of testing techniques and tactics in a brutal environment.

 

My question is this:

 

We definitely have the advantages in sheer strength, height, weight, and probably sophistication of our arts. But does this compensate for the sheer brutality of ancient Pankration? Ultimately, does it come down to the sophistication of the art, or the intensity at which it is trained? Would an ancient Pankratist (and by this I mean the Olympic championship winners) have a good chance, in a COMPLETELY no-rules situation, against a champion from one of today's MMA competitions (Pride, UFC, K1, etc.)?

 

Thanks for your time.

[White Warlock]

Umm... the pankration of today is not the pankration of ancient times.

[Beiner]

I've been doing some research lately about the ancient form of Pankration (not the modern stuff that's just another MMA calling itself by an ancient name, with a few of its principles retained). .

 

Umm... the pankration of today is not the pankration of ancient times.

 

Didnt he start off the paragraph saying that?

[Shane]

Hard to tell, but one thing is for sure and that is the mental aspect of the past would be way more intense than the mental aspect of most today. That could make all the difference in the world, also like you said the fact that they had so much time to perfect it with no rules, developing ultimate technique.

 

Just a Thought

[White Warlock]

Ack! You are correct Beiner. Silly me for speed reading.

 

To address CT's post, it would be a tough call, for many reasons. The olympiads of then were utterly merciless during competition, including ripping intestines out and tearing off fingers. Add to this that many of the olympic winners of these ancient competitions were purported to be soldiers that had fought countless times in 'real' hand-to-hand wars. In that regards, i would put my money on the ancient pankrationists... assuming we're working with the rules of then, instead of the rules of now.

[Beiner]

I'd put my money on the fighters of now.

 

Simply because of physical and mental evolution. The average height of a person in 1901 was 5'0 imagine how small people were over a decacde ago. Then you have to factor in what white warlock said about thm being warriors, take some green berets and various other people from other countrys and put them against these people, no holds bar match.

 

Id bet my last dollar that todays people would win.

[White Warlock]

Well, the thing is... the warriors of today do not focus on hand-to-hand. As to the size issue, i had read something about that... but i thought this was proven to be a false archeological examination of evidence.

[shanemm]

pankration hands down...too hardcore for today's athletes.

 

how many times has a ufc fighter won by the shere intimidation? even an ex military martial arts expert would have an extremely hard time matching them(after all a pankrationist only has to work on h-h combat, were as the military guy still needs to shoot and learn more complex battle field tactics as well as new technology). also, life back then started and ended hard for most people, no schools to soften you up, no parents watching to make sure their child doesn't get hurt, ect.

 

sure the technique may be more sound today but just ask judoka what happens when a top level wrestler steps into the ring with them...health wouldn't be a factor as all health care for good athletes was taken care of comparable to today's superstars in football or basketball. height is an advantage for the pankrationist who knows more ways to break your limbs on the ground then prepare an egg. strength advantage would definately be there on the side of today's athlete(a fouty pound rock can't be curled in 1 hand...), but i don't think that it would be so significant as to decide the match. with 2 extremely build guys, their weight won't be as much of a factor. besides all that the modern day fighter would be in for a rude awakening when those soft gloves come off...

[username9]

I just don't think you can compare.

 

They have the brutality in their favour.

 

We have the proffessionalism (as in live and breath the modern techniques and discoveries)

 

Couldn't say - quick - someone invent a time machine and make Ken Shamrock take on Aristotle's Big Brother!

 

[Username]

From what I've learned about ancient Pankration, it is really too brutal to make a comparison to modern MMA, at least in a competition. As much as they beat the stuffing out of eachother, I seriously dought modern MMA fighters want to KILL eachother like the practitioners of ancient Pankration. Now, in a street fight, where the modern MMA guy's self-preservation instincts kick in, and he IS ready to kill the other guy, I've got my money on the modern fighter.