Old school training.

[47MartialMan]

Do you remmber, say 15-20 years ago about a congressmen (whom was a TKD practitioner-I may add) wanted the US goovernment to set a standard on martial art instruction?

[rmclain]

I don't remember that, but think it is a bad idea. Still, it seems like I read every now-and-again how someone wants to create a standard and regulation in all martial arts schools.

 

Same thing happened in Korea during the 1960's.

 

I think a solution is to have an independent person with knowledge about many martial art styles so they can report what schools in the area teach, what the teacher's background is, who their teachers were etc. to simply report this to prospective students. It would need to be someone with a true love for all martial art and no hidden agenda to promote 1 school or style or get kickbacks from someone, etc.

 

R. McLain

[47MartialMan]

I don't remember that, but think it is a bad idea. Still, it seems like I read every now-and-again how someone wants to create a standard and regulation in all martial arts schools.

 

Same thing happened in Korea during the 1960's.

 

I think a solution is to have an independent person with knowledge about many martial art styles so they can report what schools in the area teach, what the teacher's background is, who their teachers were etc. to simply report this to prospective students. It would need to be someone with a true love for all martial art and no hidden agenda to promote 1 school or style or get kickbacks from someone, etc.

 

R. McLain

 

Yeah right. And in a perfect world..........

[SevenStar]

I don't remember that, but think it is a bad idea.

 

agreed.

[47MartialMan]

If i locate the article. I'll scan and post it. It is in a mag 15-20 years ago. Willl be difficult to locate. I have undreds of them.

[Sun Ti]

This is an interesting question, one which I ponder quite frequently, in fact.

 

Yes, in the "old" days, people would train under different masters. I might make a mention that this wasn't because each master did not know as much as they do now, but because many were encouraged to do so by their masters in order to see differing perspectives on same things or even different things. Many Shuri-te practitioners trained with Naha-te teachers, and vice versa. Many in both approaches trained in China. Sokon Matsumura is purported to have even received a menkyo kaiden in Jigen Ryu swordsmanship, but this is yet to be actually verified. Suffice it to say, he was a shining example of having studied many different ways of fighting.

 

[end rambling essay]

 

It doesn't need to be proven. Machimura's name is a part of the Jigen school's registry. The current headmaster of Jigen Ryu has verified this. Sokon Matsumura was a Shihan in that ryu. The headmaster has also said that the influence of Matsumura's karate and Jigen Ryu was two-way street. "The question is which influenced which the most." Those are his words.

 

As a practicing nidan in the Kokusai Shuri Te Karate/Kobujutsu Rengokai, and the International Shorin Ryu Matsumura Seito Karate/Kobujutsu Association, I can say that our requirements for Shodan include 5 kata. They must be perfected to the best of your ability. The normal time it takes to get a Shodan in this system is about 3-5 years, so 4 years. Shodan is the beginning of understanding. You should know the first five kata inside and out, and be able to apply and show the analysis of them with originality and flexibility. Learning 15-20 kata before getting Shodan will give you the movements but not the application/analysis. Concentrated study of each kata, with no moving on until you've undertsood them completely, and can execute them flawlessly (for you), should be the aim of "old school" training.

 

That's my opinion based on my training and experience in Shorinkan and Matsumura Orthodox. Peace...

[Shorin Ryuu]

It doesn't need to be proven. Machimura's name is a part of the Jigen school's registry. The current headmaster of Jigen Ryu has verified this. Sokon Matsumura was a Shihan in that ryu. The headmaster has also said that the influence of Matsumura's karate and Jigen Ryu was two-way street. "The question is which influenced which the most." Those are his words.

 

I didn't know that. I had read somewhere that Ikeda Honshu said he couldn't verify it in the records of Jigen ryu.

 

But I recall seeing that connections between Jigen Ryu and Matsumura's karate before though. I didn't know he had that kind of effect on Jigen Ryu (or vice versa).

 

I wasn't necessarily casting doubt on this fact in my original post, I was just showing how common it was for people to train in many different things back then.

[searcher]

I first want to say Thank You for all of the good posts and information that everyone has provided. My reason for starting this post is for my Kobudo training. I have trained in Ryukyu Kobudo and recently Yamanne-ryu Bo-jutsu,, as well as learning as many different kata and their bunkai as I can. This has lead me to wondering what I tell students as to the "style" of kobudo that they are studying. For many years I had this problem with my karate training, since I taught a mixture of different ryuha with 1 style being taught in its entirety. I followed Miyagi Chojun's quote when he was asked what style he taught, he simply stated, "Karate."

 

As has come up in some of the recent posts concerning a standardization of the martial arts and the checking of credentials, I see we have both sides on this issue. My own oppinion is that we should stay away from standardization since there are so many different ryuha and they all have their own unique flavour, But I am still wondering about a way for prospective students to check the backgrounds of and instructor. Perhaps we will have some way of figuring this out in the future, who knows.

 

I would like to end this post with a little history for everyone when it come to have publicly displayed credentials or in this case a lack of them. Years ago an unknown blackbelt entered the Okinawan World Championships, his name was Tsugero Sakumoto and the style he studied was Ryuei-ryu. Even today this style is little known, but at that Championships he blew the competition away. Before the tournament started there was a lot of discussion about his legitimacy for he claimed to be a "master." After the tournament was over nobody ever questioned his credentials. This oges to show that just because we have never heard of a style or a particular master it does not make it a Mcdojo.

[47MartialMan]

searcher

 

Thanks for the "follow-up. And nicely ponted out. And, do you have any links/lineages?

 

[searcher]

If you are refering to the Ryuei-ryu it is at

 

ryuei-ryu.com. There is still very little information about the style available.