What is the difference?

[47MartialMan]

Thanks Shorin Ryuu,

 

I had thought and read close to the same info. The tohught that Knedo, and such came from Kenjutsu. I guess sonthing that is the "way" came from something that was a "art".

 

DM, I am not arguing for the sake of arguing. All I am stating, is that there are interpretations and mis-interpretations.

 

I can understand when things are said, translated, interprereted, or mis-interpreted,hat you may find certain things of this subject repulsive.

 

In the past, when I had long conversation and/or correspondance with Buddhist practitoners, monks, along the conversation of Ch'an Buddhism. They found that the "Shaolin" saga repulsive also.

 

if you were both southerners, you wouldn't need interpreting

 

But I am speaking of common communication and the interpretation or misinterpretation. A Shaolin Do person is going to interpret and oresent it in accordance to the place or area that it is in.

 

interpreting would be for people who might not understand.

 

In that context yes, but in someone's interpretation no. Like poetry, Finnegan's Wake, other information that has different interpretation per individual.

 

if this place that is so focused on teaching traditional shaolin arts don't even care enough to use the correct terms, then what does that say about them?

 

Who stated that they did "Traditional Shaolin Arts. Besides, I have a slight tenancy to believe that no one can do "Traditional Shaolin Arts"

 

why insist on using the in-correct romanised chinese form of 'shaolin-do' instead of the correct english form of 'shaolin way'?

 

And how do you know what is the correct "English" form? What do you mean by this? English changes "form" per place, area, or country.

 

Back to do and jutsu. "Do" cannot be exclusively Japanese. Does the Japanese translation meant the same as other Asiatic definitions?

[Drunken Monkey]

but as far as i can se, you ARE just arguing for the sake of it.

 

Who stated that they did "Traditional Shaolin Arts

 

they do.

 

on their website.

 

And how do you know what is the correct "English" form?

 

an example of your 'pointless arguing that doesn't actually deal directly with what we are talking about.

 

simple question for you.

 

is 'shaolin way' wrong by way of meaning, structure or form?

[47MartialMan]

They do.

 

Well, from a certain point of view, perhaps no martial art still could be considered as "traditional".

 

Are we talking about Dao/Tao? Or is there another Chinese "way"?

 

Like- Do this my "way". What would be the interpreatation of "way" in that sentence?

 

Are we talking about way, on philosophical or religious point, or way per interpretation.

 

Way per interpretation- This is your way. This is my way. Do it my way. Do it your way. This is the Japanese way. This is the Chinese way. This is the way it was. The way of Shaolin or this is Shaolin's Way (which how do they know what was the "way" in Shaolin) Or this is (or is not) Shaolin's way.

 

Are we talking about a course of conduct or action?

 

Or are we talking about an aspect, particluarity?

 

Or In a position to become upon?

 

Or act like, resemble, per imitation?

 

Drunken Monkey Way

 

Dave's Way

 

Can it be Shaolin Jutsu?

[47MartialMan]

Hold the phone.

 

If the traditional "way" (not religious per Dao/Tao) of Shaolin was Ch'en Buddhism, via meditation, then Shaolin Do should be about a bunch of people meditating.

 

Hmnnn.

[Drunken Monkey]

Are we talking about Dao/Tao? Or is there another Chinese "way"?

 

let's see.

 

in chinese the term 'do/tao/dao' means something very specific, as i have said before.

 

translated, 'do' comes as being something along the lines of 'way of'

 

but

 

that version of way of isn't the same is the intended english equivilant.

 

i.e 'do' (way of) does not mean method (way of).

 

as i have said before, it is primarily to do with taoism or thoughts of that nature.

 

Way per interpretation- This is your way. This is my way. Do it my way. Do it your way. This is the Japanese way. This is the Chinese way. This is the way it was. The way of Shaolin or this is Shaolin's Way (which how do they know what was the "way" in Shaolin) Or this is (or is not) Shaolin's way

 

Are we talking about a course of conduct or action?

 

Or are we talking about an aspect, particluarity?

 

Or In a position to become upon?

 

Or act like, resemble, per imitation?

 

everything here is talking about method of doing things

 

and that is exactly it.

 

'do', while it does kinda mean 'way of'

 

(when translated into closest english equivilants)

 

it doesn't mean 'method' (as the above describes).

 

in addition, 'shaolin' but itself isn't a form of tao.

 

which is why 'shaolin do/dao/tao doesn't work.

 

i.e shaolin method/way would be right but again, why shaolin do/dao/tao isn't

 

and this is something that arises when looking at it from a pure chinese langauge point of view.

 

if it is a mixture of japanese and chinese words then the question arises, why?

 

and again, i still wonder why they didn't just keept to 'english' terms and use 'shaolin way'.

 

as for shaolin jutsu.

 

um....

[47MartialMan]

Yes, but is Jeet Kune Do, per a Dao/Tao?

 

Is it of method?

 

or how about Shorin Do...

 

Hmmn.

 

Now you must bare (bear ) in mind, this or the previous has not been the intent to argue, just to generalize why or how things are interpreted or mis-interprted.

 

Now to you understand?

[47MartialMan]

and again, i still wonder why they didn't just keept to 'english' terms and use 'shaolin way'.

 

In that case it will be:

 

Young Forest Way

[Drunken Monkey]

i have no idea about what the shaolin-do school is like.

 

from the website i have several 'problems'

 

but they don't neccessarily mean anything.

 

actually, if it is traditional shaolin way

 

(even if it includes da-mo's teachings)

 

it wouldn't go beyond stretching and yes, meditating.

 

lots.

 

and chopping wood.

 

and sweeping floors.

 

and writing scriptures.

 

a lot of what's on their syllabus is quite 'modern'

 

* * *

 

ahhhh, jeet kune do is slightly different.

 

his 'do' is the short form for 'do-lei' (as in philosophy/principles).

 

so while 'jeet kune do'='way of the intercepting fist'

 

(in english)

 

it is closer to being 'philosophies behind the interecpting fist'.

 

and then when you take the book 'the tao of jeet kune do', you can see it actually means,

 

the way of the philosphies of the intercepting fist.

 

and shorin do is romanised from the japanese.

 

again, a slightly different case.

 

my knowledge of the japanese (culture and related) is very limited.

 

all i know is learnt from a previous girlfriend and um, most of which can't be repeated/mentioned in the presence of minors

 

but it was um, good fun learning.

[47MartialMan]

Yeah, from their website:

 

"If your primary interest is tournament skills, I advise you to seek your training elsewhere! Most of what you will learn here is too lethal for tournament use. I teach the ancient system of Shaolin Do, 'Art of survival, not of sport.'

 

As did the immortals, we should learn to destroy so that we may preserve! It is a way of truth. The knowledge that I offer you is not an athletic training; it is a sacred trust."

 

Part-A But then you click on "events" and you get:

 

SDA Tournaments

 

Grandmaster Sin The has been holding National Tournaments for many years now. These tournaments are currently sponsored by the SDA

 

Kinda contradictory?

 

Part-B Per what immortals? Learn to destroy? Doesn't sound like Shaolin that I have come to learn about.

 

Well anyway, although their claims maybe "exaggerated". Other people of other arts tend to "exaggerate" theirs as well. Hey, the local one may teach a decent method? They may instill a good martial discipline?

[Drunken Monkey]

In that case it will be:

 

Young Forest Way

 

and that's the difference between a good translation and a bad translation

 

or

 

difference between translating directly and translating into meaning.

 

another example.

 

'cheng gwa'

 

cheng=green

 

gwa=vegetable (of the non leafy kind....)

 

so translated directly you get 'green vegetable'.

 

but

 

it actually means 'cucumber'.

 

anyway.

 

i didn't really read that much of the website.

 

it's not the sort of thing that interests me.

 

i had a look at their syllabus and the order in which things are taught is kinda odd.

 

some of the later things taught are considered fundemental training.

 

****edit****

 

the immortals.

 

it's a chinese thing.

 

not necessarily traditional buddhist characters

 

but

 

in the chinese versions of things where buddhist, taoist, ancenstral worship, historical figures 'worship' etc etc all mix to form the 'culture',

 

some taoist characters were said to have been 'enlightened'

 

and hence feature in some buddhist stories.

 

one of the famous 8 immortals was a taoist before enlightenment.

 

but um, i don't recall them doing any destroying......