What is the difference?

[47MartialMan]

but 'interpret' and 'understand' aren't the same.

 

especially when we are talking about a relatively fixed thing like a language.

 

'interpret' is to explain or translate.

 

'understand' is to know and comprehend.

 

in the case of the mis-use of the word 'do'.

 

they interpreted/translated it as 'way of'

 

but

 

they didn't understand that it isn't the same as the english 'way of'.

 

My interpretation on what you are saying IS my UNDERSTANDING of it.

 

Interpret-To expond the significance ofA representation of meaning or significance

 

Understanding-To proceive and comprehend the nature and significance of

 

It is the same to interpret of understand the same as to misinterpret or to mis-understand.

 

Back to Kendo and Kenjutsu, for example:

 

Can they ever be the same art?

[Shorin Ryuu]

Um, are people just ignoring my posts?

[47MartialMan]

Shorin Ryuu

 

Good point. I guess a person studying Iaido, can somwhat relate to Kendo?

 

Here is a question, can there be the same teacher of Keno/Kenjutsu.

 

In other words, per their closeness, can a qualified teacher instruct both?

 

And does this have a better advantage being in the same school that has both.

 

And, can some of the techinwques, methods, and practices, be the same?

[Drunken Monkey]

sorry shorin ryuu.....

 

My interpretation on what you are saying IS my UNDERSTANDING of it

 

but in the context of languages.

 

(what i am talking about)

 

if you do not fully understand the language, when translating, errors wil occur when interpreting.

 

understanding leads to good interpreting.

 

you have to understand how the language works.

 

simply translating like for like is what leads to bad interpretations.

 

remember, we are talking about two very different langauges here,

 

not different 'versions' of the same one.

[Shorin Ryuu]

I think some of the techniques, methods and practices can be the same. Sometimes even the bamboo shinai are used in kumite by iaido practitioners, like those in kendo. However, I think the practice in iaido is always geared towards using a real sword whereas in many dojo (from what I've gathered by talking to kendoists in Japan) they train specifically to use the shinai, although more so on the sport circuit. Even if they do train with the bokken, most usually do not carry it over into the shinken level where they use a real sword. On the other hand, any use of a non-sharp sword (apart from getting around weapons laws in japan) by the iaido practitioner is limited only for either safety or practicality purposes. The techniques they use, whether it is the shinai, bokken, iaito or shinken should all be exactly the same: as if they were using a shinken.

 

As I mentioned before, iaido focuses heavily on the aspect of cutting and using the iaito/shinken. At the higher levels, they progress to live blades and some will train using steel on steel.

 

I think there is some advantage of being able to use some safer variants of a sharp katana. However, just like in overly sport-oriented versions of karate, there is the risk of losing the combative application by shifting the training from the proper use of a training tool (kumite) to excelling at the use of a training tool (focusing mainly on tournaments or matches).

[47MartialMan]

sorry shorin ryuu.....

 

My interpretation on what you are saying IS my UNDERSTANDING of it

 

but in the context of languages.

 

(what i am talking about)

 

if you do not fully understand the language, when translating, errors wil occur when interpreting.

 

Depends on whom I am interpreting it from. Depends on whom is interpeting from me. For example, if I as the speaker, and my listener, we are both Southerners, it makes sense to us.

 

understanding leads to good interpreting.

 

you have to understand how the language works.

 

simply translating like for like is what leads to bad interpretations.

 

You almost got it-good understanding/good interpretating.

 

Bad interpretation for whom? Depends on the place and the people in conversation.

 

remember, we are talking about two very different langauges here,

 

not different 'versions' of the same one.

 

Sorry, I am not on a different version topic. I am talking about interpreation or mis-interpretation.

 

It is about Finnegan's Wake. Breaking rules. Interpreting and mis-interpreting. Creating though not following a set pattern.

 

I don't care how it is done in China at this point. The people of Shaolin Do don't seem to care either.

 

Ok, Shorin and Shorinji, mean the same?

[47MartialMan]

Shorin Ryuu,

 

So is Iaido a "product" of Kendo or Kenjutsu?

 

In other words, could all of these stem from one school (subject-not family)

[Shorin Ryuu]

Hmm...it's probably best of it to think of it in this way.

 

Kenjutsu came first, as it just simply means the study and practice of the combative uses of the sword.

 

A version of kenjutsu is battoujutsu, which specialized in cutting an opponent as the katana is drawn from the saya (sheath). This general style also incorporated fighting from the unsheathed position as well as with the sword still sheathed. In other words, it was like other kenjutsu styles, but put a lot of emphasis on the drawing (others did as well, but this one did even more so, hence the name, which just really meant the art of drawing a sword/blade).

 

Even during the Tokugawa Bakufu (before the Meiji Era), some of the sword systems became more stylized and less practical, although there were many that dedicated much time to the practice of fighting, really for lack of anything better to do. The Tokugawa era was relatively peaceful, extremely much more so in comparison to the times just before it, in its beginning and at its end, so there was less "battlefield" experience.

 

As the Tokugawa era ended, there was a surge of modernization in Japan, as the Meiji Era was ushered in more by the powers of rifles than swords (ironically, this was similar to the Tokugawa Era). In this case, modernization was there to stay and with the ending of the samurai class, which in many places was just a joke of its former martial status anyway, a lot of the old warrior traditions were dying out.

 

Attempting to preserve all of the spirit and some of its techniques and principles, the Dai Nippon Butokukai was formed and helped unite a lot of jujitsu and kenjutsu into judo and kendo forms. As the katana was no longer used in kendo (kendo was being implemented into a lot of school systems and was being even more open to the public), a lot of the techniques were changed.

 

So, where does this answer your original question?

 

Iaido is basically an outgrowth of those kenjutsu schools that were battoujutsu. The name iaido is about as "old" as that of "karate", meaning it is very new. Kendo is more of an outgrowth of styles that did not place as much emphasis on drawing the sword.

 

So, short answer is that kendo and iaido stemmed from kenjutsu.

[Drunken Monkey]

see.

 

now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

 

Depends on whom I am interpreting it from. Depends on whom is interpeting from me. For example, if I as the speaker, and my listener, we are both Southerners, it makes sense to us

 

if you were both southerners, you wouldn't need interpreting.

 

Bad interpretation for whom? Depends on the place and the people in conversation

 

again.

 

interpreting would be for people who might not understand.

 

(cos after all, we are talking about languages).

 

Sorry, I am not on a different version topic

 

but you were the one who brought up the use of 'make gorceries'

 

as opposed to 'do the groceries';

 

which are both versions of the same language.

 

I don't care how it is done in China at this point. The people of Shaolin Do don't seem to care either

 

and that is kind of the point.

 

if this place that is so focused on teaching traditional shaolin arts don't even care enough to use the correct terms, then what does that say about them?

 

why insist on using the in-correct romanised chinese form of 'shaolin-do'

 

instead of the correct english form of 'shaolin way'?

[Drunken Monkey]

jutsu/do.

 

i (kinda)remember an article that i felt deals with this quite well.

 

the main difference is in the focus.

 

taking karate as the subject.

 

initially, karate was something that trained you to be an effective fighter.

 

it took as its key, training to reach 'no mind';

 

to fear nothing in your actions.

 

this was, if you like, a legacy of the old budo way of life

 

where how to best serve your master was all that a warrior was concerned with.

 

where life and death made no matter

 

as long as it served.

 

karate-do's main difference is that it is less about fighting (and the 'serving') and more about self development.

 

this self development's aim is to help you reach 'no mind'.

 

along the way, you just happen to learn to fight.

 

i have to say that i'm recalling this from memory.

 

i'll try to find it again and post the actual article or details of said article.