Shotokan's Secret: The Hidden Truth Behind Karate's Fighting

[Killer Miller]

47MartialMan, I can understand how you would feel this way in a Shotokan tournament. But in Shotokan, we view a tournament differently than most other MA tournaments. A Shotokan tournament is primarily a Test more than it is a sport competition. This is a test of how well you have trained Shotokan based upon Shotokan concepts of the art.

 

What is Shotokan's premise of training? Primarily "one" chance to kill the oponent with "one" clean, killing, blow or technique applied with perfect timing. This may sound like an easy goal for one "whole" point, but it's not. The judges are going to be Shotokan, because it "is" Shotokan. That's why I said we have very specific rules compared to other styles (or outsiders).

 

This is why we typically don't invite outsiders to our tournaments. We may allow other organizations if we feel they are similar or the same in determining a point in Kumite - or point(s) in terms of Kata. But outsiders are too different for our judges to award points based on our rules.

 

Now if it's a sanctioned tournament, there could be no outsiders at all. But a non-sanctioned tournament, this could be allowed. However, I don't agree with the Shotokan club that promoted a tournament to outsiders as well (he was just probably money hungry and tried to draw a larger crowd!). There are too many differences, and yes all of the judges are going to be Shotokan, and another art that is very different to ours would not score or place based on our rules.

 

Shotokan is more of an art within a very close circle of practioners. It is not a public, or local sport that many other MA or Kick-boxing events are that are more in-line with the general public MA events.

 

Trust me, we are not this way to disrespect, demean, or imply that anyone is inferior to us, just different than our practices - that's all. It's very difficult to award you points and allow you to place when you don't truly understand our art and how we score. Unfortunately, most outsiders don't understand this and get very offended - and I could see why as well... Finally, don't get me wrong either, if an outsider has enough similarities in our style, and is quite good at it, we have no problem in awarding them points or allowing them to place - but I have to tell you that this is very rare...

 

Sorry you got a bad taste in your mouth about this subject, but it's usually not nearly as personal as many of you perceive. Most of the Shotokan judges are a lot more fair than you might think.

 

- Killer -

[cross]

Killer Miller,

 

Where your comments about misrepresentation of the art directed at anyone post in particular?

[47MartialMan]

47MartialMan, I can understand how you would feel this way in a Shotokan tournament. But in Shotokan, we view a tournament differently than most other MA tournaments. A Shotokan tournament is primarily a Test more than it is a sport competition. This is a test of how well you have trained Shotokan based upon Shotokan concepts of the art.

 

No, from what I seen, it is a "network". To demonstrate what one had kearned from which particular Shotokan teacher/school. That they compete amongst themselves leaving little or no opportunity for others to win or place. Now, this is ok, but the event should not state "open to all martial arts".

 

What is Shotokan's premise of training? Primarily "one" chance to kill the oponent with "one" clean, killing, blow or technique applied with perfect timing. This may sound like an easy goal for one "whole" point, but it's not. The judges are going to be Shotokan, because it "is" Shotokan. That's why I said we have very specific rules compared to other styles (or outsiders).

 

I agree. I like many of Shotokan's parry counters. But, my point/gripe is the promoters should not invite other martial artists that have little or no chances to win by mere point judgement. And the event should not state "open to all martial arts".

 

This is why we typically don't invite outsiders to our tournaments. We may allow other organizations if we feel they are similar or the same in determining a point in Kumite - or point(s) in terms of Kata. But outsiders are too different for our judges to award points based on our rules.

 

"When in Rome, Do as the Romans". TKD tournaments that have only TKD judges are the same. And yes, I whole-heartenly agree. But read my point/gripe.

 

Now if it's a sanctioned tournament, there could be no outsiders at all. But a non-sanctioned tournament, this could be allowed. However, I don't agree with the Shotokan club that promoted a tournament to outsiders as well (he was just probably money hungry and tried to draw a larger crowd!). There are too many differences, and yes all of the judges are going to be Shotokan, and another art that is very different to ours would not score or place based on our rules.

 

Ditto. But vice versa. I had seen a few Shotokan competitors appear in events that were/are "open to all martial arts". They did not fair so well, but at times, that had placed.

 

Shotokan is more of an art within a very close circle of practioners. It is not a public, or local sport that many other MA or Kick-boxing events are that are more in-line with the general public MA events.

 

I agree. Thus, I love its "close circle". Not too many become McDojo. If someone clains a certain high rank-THEY BETTER have backing for their credentials.

 

Trust me, we are not this way to disrespect, demean, or imply that anyone is inferior to us, just different than our practices - that's all.

 

Yes-this is understood

 

It's very difficult to award you points and allow you to place when you don't truly understand our art and how we score.

 

Not when the judges are biased, see a outsider scoring the points and elimnating the competiton. The "blind eye" syndrome comes into play.

 

Unfortunately, most outsiders don't understand this and get very offended - and I could see why as well... Finally, don't get me wrong either, if an outsider has enough similarities in our style, and is quite good at it, we have no problem in awarding them points or allowing them to place - but I have to tell you that this is very rare...

 

Because the all of the judges are Shotokan and deem Shotokan should win. I have attended many Shotokan tournaments. Such as those even after I had left and returned with other "outside" martial artists. One in particular knock his Shotokan competitor out of bounds many of times and scored the most points. When he had lost and didn't even placed, people were difintely appalled-even other Shotokan people.

 

Sorry you got a bad taste in your mouth about this subject, but it's usually not nearly as personal as many of you perceive. Most of the Shotokan judges are a lot more fair than you might think.

 

No, from where I am, it IS as many as I experienced-not perceive. So far, I have not seen fair judging from Shotokan. But I do not have any annimosity. As I had stated earlier, that Shotokan IS a valuable art to practice. The schools that I have trained and visited, have great principals in methods and morals. I have not seen one- a "belt factory", or "sell out" completely, to a point of under-quality. All of those, from my experience and opinion, definitely has the practitioner to earn each rank in accordance to correct morality.

[ShotokanKid]

Never seen it although at my dojo, on the written test for my black belt, one of the questions was the philosophy of Shotokan and it was "one punch kills"

[TheDarxide]

I hate to burst your bubble, but what overseas invasion where they talking about? The Satsuma samurai were the de facto rulers of Okinawa since the 1600s, long before it was officially annexed by Japan in the late 1880s, I believe. The fact that they lasted more than a few days (back in the 1600s) against fully armed Satsuma samurai is a testament to their spirit, but the outcome was inevitable. Even before the samurai arrived, the Okinawan king had in place a weapons ban.

At any rate, any myths you hear of Okinawan karate being used to fend off invading hordes of whatever are sadly, just myths. A lot of Okinawans like to propogate these, but it falls along the same line of Davy Crockett here in the states or just pride and embellishment. Don't get me wrong, this stuff works. Against an army, it doesn't.

Anyway, this might simply be an editorial insert by some idiot...I mean person who knows nothing about karate (referring to the Amazon description). For one thing, Okinawan karate was not a "hard" style that became Shotokan... Okinawan karate is a mix of hard and soft, and Shotokan karate was originally taught that way. Even during Funakoshi's lifetime, however, Shotokan became the "hard" style it is today. He even lamented this after watching a performance for the Butokukai...

No offense, but this book seems to be highly spun...

The overseas invasion refers to the landing by Commodore Matthew Perry. I suggest you google this or actually read the book and get a history lesson.

[kreza]

The book is excellent. While I'm in no position to verify the facts as they are presented, reading this book only served to fuel my passion for Shotokan.

If you hate Shotokan, maybe read a different book, but I found it to be quite inspiring and would recommend it to anyone.

[shotokanbeginner]

Yes. Shotokan relies more upon pure muscle strength to transition from stance to stance rather than a natural transition brought about by internal body mechanics. Furthermore, the method of striking is much more external (muscles and heavy hip rotation) rather than internal (structure, whipping and gamaku). This isn't to say that there aren't some natural mechanics to it, but there is a significant lack of them in my opinion. Note that this doesn't refer to simply being relaxed (although that is a big portion). This also includes the movement throughout and within the execution of any number of techniques. It can also be considered hard because of the energy deadlocking. This is outwardly visible in that most Shotokan practitioners look very rigid when doing kata or sometimes even kumite. Some people compensate for this by working the muscles harder and can pass off for looking fluid and natural in their movements. But this isn't true fluidity, this is forced fluidity. These are the vast majority of Shotokan stylists I have met, although the same exceptions to the rule disclaimer applies here.

The part about useing pure muscle is I think innacurate we get our power with conection and weight and being less tense.