Shotokan's Secret: The Hidden Truth Behind Karate's Fighting

[Sho-ju]

Shorin Ryuu , I would say, actually has better knowledge of many aspects of the art than I do

 

I think you give me more credit that I deserve...

 

I was beginning to get the sense that Shorinryu Sensei had a bit of "grass hopper syndrome" going on. Good stuff.

 

sj

[Shorin Ryuu]

I've only been in Shorin Ryu for four years. I've had the opportunity to train with nothing but excellent instructors for those four years, but only four years nonetheless. I had only what I consider marginal experience in the martial arts (looking back, it was probably a mcdojo, but it gave me the opportunity to learn some basic fundamentals) before this.

 

During the past four years, I had the opportunity to meet and train with, philosophize with, and hang out with stylists from all over the country and varying skill levels. I try not to draw any conclusions about styles that I've only had one encounter with, or even several.

 

And yes, I read a lot. But I wear contacts

 

Incidentally, when I was in Japan once, I wore glasses for a little bit. It was me, a white friend and a black friend. Some Japanese, trying to be friendly, mentioned that I looked like Harry Potter (glasses), my white friend looked like Tom Cruise, and my black friend looked like Chris Rock. None of this could have been further from the truth, but your comment reminded me of that...

 

My Matsumura teacher once told me: There are many people that train for thirty years. You can do just one year thirty times as most people do, or thirty different years one at a time, where you keep learning. I am glad to see that you are in the latter category.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

During the past four years, I had the opportunity to meet and train with, philosophize with, and hang out with stylists from all over the country and varying skill levels. I try not to draw any conclusions about styles that I've only had one encounter with, or even several.

 

Ahhhhh..and advantage I've never had living here in God's country. Beautiful as it is here, there are certain aspects that SUCK!

Some Japanese, trying to be friendly, mentioned that I looked like Harry Potter (glasses),

 

I KNEW IT!!!

My Matsumura teacher once told me: There are many people that train for thirty years. You can do just one year thirty times as most people do, or thirty different years one at a time, where you keep learning. I am glad to see that you are in the latter category.

 

All I can say is...I'm stubborn, and by God...one of these days, I might just get it! Certainly, if I was in this for the rank, I'd have quit years ago. And interesting side note (now that the thread is totally highjacked...sorry), I talked to my sensei the other day about promoting my 2nd Dan sensei student to his sandan. I believe he is well qualified for it, and he has been teaching the majority of the classes since my back is pretty well "toast" from a non-MA related injury. I still teach, but there are some things I can't do now...like kicking with my right leg and breakfalls. Anyway, since I'm a Sandan myself, I can't promote him higher. He's been at Nidan for 6 years now and has never asked for another promotion. My sensei said that he would promote him on my recommendation alone (the guy trusts my judgement...foolish? ) on one condition. That I accpet a yandan promotion myself. I balked at that somewhat because after 14 years as a Sandan (no pun/sarcasm intended), I'm really not sure if I'm at that level yet....especially with my injury. It is the only condition he would accept...so...I guess one of these days I'll get a certificate. Yes, I didn't formally test in front of my sensei, as he's in Maryland, and I'm in Montana. Mostly "time in grade" I suppose, and I'm sure people will have a fit about that. I can understand that, so let's not go there people. Given the opportunity, I'd love to test in person...but it's just not feasible.

 

And you thought you rambled? Ha! You ain't got nothin' on me bud!

[Shorin Ryuu]

Attention passengers. Not only has this thread been hijacked, but we will now divert it to the Bahamas. Happy flying.

 

Right...anyway...

 

Well, I for one think that there is too much emphasis on the "test". Despite all the cool tales of Shaolin monks picking up scalding hot iron cauldrons with just their forearms, the "test" as we know it today is obviously relatively new to karate.

 

I don't need to tell you this, Shorinryu Sensei (this is more for the purpose of the argument), you know as an instructor that you don't test people unless you're ready. Therefore the test is just something nice to stand out in the memory of the person who tested (I almost phrased that differently, but caught myself...), especially after the shodan level. I am beginning to seriously wonder if any of the huge "haze" tests are really necessary after a certain point, if at all. I suppose some of it is necessary in today's external reward-driven society. Not accusing you of this, but most people out there need that hurdle to jump in front of them before they feel they've done it. Let alone the fact that they've been training their hearts out all this time, but they need that crowning achievement. It's not bad, I just don't find it absolutely necessary.

 

My point being is that your teacher knows you, he trusts you, so I personally find nothing wrong with what you described in your last post. If anything, that probably resembles more of the old way of teaching than anything else.

 

And on that note, congratulations. You've obviously earned it.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I appreciate that Shorin Ryuu. I used to test, years ago, where the student had to show me this, that and the other thing, and do it perfectly to pass. I've since changed my testing procedures myself (allowed to test how we want in this association) where the students know they are being tested in every class...not just during a formal test itself.

 

I will most often just watch a student during every class, and when I feel they are at the level I want them to be at for the next belt, I will, at the end of class, give them a certificate for their next belt level. They're usually taken back by that, and quite happy. I have never seen any reason to run a person "through the testing mill" by seeing how many pushups they can do (what does that have to do with it...I've never figured out), how many times I can make them do a kata until they drop on their face, sparring 20 people one right after another, etc. Heck, that's a pretty normal class for us anyway!

 

Not that I'm saying other sensei can't do those things..that's fine if that works for them, but it's not the way that I believe that it needs to be done. Heck, for my shodan, Sensei Kuda asked me to do two kata, then sit down. Nidan was before a 6th Dan..trained with him for a week...no formal test, and he promoted me. Sandan was about the same as shodan...if front of Sensei Kuda again. And now this yondan test.

 

Oh hell...rambling again. Is this a result of Shorinryu training? I don't remember learning a "rambling kata" anywhere along the way.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

An interesting side note Shorin Ryuu that I rib my sensei about now and then is this. I've actually been in this art longer than he has! By about 5 years I think. I had may shodan before he even started training for cryin' out loud! However, he lived and trained directly under Sensei Kuda on Okinawa for quite a few years, and I didn't...thus the biggest difference. I call him "Junior" sometimes..or "Kid". He's about 8 years younger than I am too. I like martial artists, and people in general, that have a good sense of humor.

[Sho-ju]

***THIS CONTAINS 'SPOILER' ELEMENTS, MEANING, I'M GIVING AWAY A FEW OF THE MAIN POINTS OF THE BOOK.***

 

I read the book almost in one sitting, it was that good of a read. Fantasy and fact mixed together to make one heck of a story. The first 4 or so chapters had me hooked, the middle was stretch and then the ending was a good read that catch my attention again. The comments in the book about Chotoku Kyan are very interesting, the author makes him out to be 'the most over trained karateka' in the world. He also puts forward that Kyan was a bitter person.

 

The story goes something like this, shotokan was a highly stylized verison of Chinese chuan fa used to protect the Okinawan King in his chamber room. It was used to stop the enemy with one punch, attacking as many as possible in a short time, giving the King time to get out the back door. Matsumura, Itosu, Kyan (not Chotoku but his father) Azato and a handful of others created the idea's used in shotokan. The idea was to knock someout with one punch instead of trying to nail atemi waza points or grapple. It's hard to hit points in a crowd and you sure as heck can't grapple in a crowd.

 

That's it.

 

I say buy the book and read it, it's well written and presents a lot of possible reasons to explain why shotokan is the way it is today. The book has a lot of info on translations and the effects the US had on Okinawa during the 'openning up' of Japan by Perry.

[longarm25]

I'm sure Shorinryu sensei can attest to the existence of seisan, wanshu and rohai within Matsumura Shorin Ryu.

Many chorin styles also use Chinto contains many soft circular movements

[Sho-ju]

The author puts forward the idea that circular movements (blocks and tai sabaki) lead to too many steps, the purpose of the body guards of the King was direct contact and cause as much damage as you can with one strike.

[dingyuan]

Is Shotokan totally external fighting style?