Shotokan's Secret: The Hidden Truth Behind Karate's Fighting

[Sho-ju]

You mention that there are less circles in Shorin Ryu. Last time I checked, the style was replete with them. Only, a straight line is use to make a circle, not a circle to make a circle. This concept is used in Tai Chi as well, and I don't daresay that anyone calls Tai Chi hard...

 

The circles in Shorin Ryu are tighter, so they are less obvious.

 

As far as common bias that Okinawan stylists have against Shotokan, yes, you are right. But I have trained with Shotokan stylists for years, who were from all around the country, not just one dojo.

 

With respect, I disagree. I too have trained and continue to train in Matsubayashi ryu, I think we differ in our understanding of circles in training. A soft style, as I understand it, would be some styles of wushu. Using swinging motions for attack and defence.

 

And for the record, Shotokan stylests have bias as well and it was never my intention to state other wise.

 

OSU!

 

sj

[Shorinryu Sensei]

With respect, I disagree. I too have trained and continue to train in Matsubayashi ryu, I think we differ in our understanding of circles in training. A soft style, as I understand it, would be some styles of wushu. Using swinging motions for attack and defence.

 

And for the record, Shotokan stylests have bias as well and it was never my intention to state other wise.

 

OSU!

 

sj

 

Alrighty then...with respect also, I'll disagree with you this time (tag, you're it?)

 

Just to give you my background and experience in Shorinryu, I have been practicing it since January of 1975 (30 years this January), so have a fair amount of experience in it. No, I don';t classify myself as an expert "know it all" of the system, and Shorin Ryuu , I would say, actually has better knowledge of many aspects of the art than I do, but I do know that Shorinryu has many...MANY circular techniques in it. Not just in striking/punching, but blocking, kicking (no, not a lot of spinning...but it's all in the angles), and in it's body shifting/movements. At 6'6" tall and around 235lbs, I'm a pretty big guy, and I love the circular techniques much better than the straight on, hard style techniques found in a lot of Japanese systems. I like fighting/sparring those guys. Very easy to get in on.

 

The circular techniques no doubt come from the Shaolin, White Crane influence to the system way back when (Kusanku?)

[Sho-ju]

I've only been in contact with shorin for 4 or 5 years now, my experiance is limited to Canadiaized Shorin and within the last 3 years traditional matsubayashi.

 

How similar is shorei to tomari te?

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I've only been in contact with shorin for 4 or 5 years now, my experiance is limited to Canadiaized Shorin and within the last 3 years traditional matsubayashi.

 

How similar is shorei to tomari te?

 

Honestly, I can't tell you as I really haven't studied or seen the others. I do the Orthodox/old version of Shorinryu as taught by the late OSensei Soken Hohan, and passed down to one of his students, Sensei Kuda Yuichi. I'm sure they're very similar to the unbtrained eye, but the little I've seen, some of them get into higher kicks, different applications/movements of their kata, more sporting aspects sometimes, etc. I'm sure Shorin Ryuu will dive in here before long and be able to answer that question much better than I can. If he doesn't, send him a PM and ask him to join in.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Where in Canada are you? I'm in NW Montana. We get TONS of your brethern down here all the time for golf, skiing, etc. Just last night, I was having a heck of a good time with a bunch of people from Calgary. I'll probably see them tonight also.

[Sho-ju]

I'm in Ontario, close to MI.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Shorinryu Sensei: You know me too well, hehe.

 

Sho-ju: Did you mean Shuri te and Tomari te? Shorei refers more to the Naha te styles while Shuri te refers to the Shorin styles.

 

At any rate, I believe Tomari te to be closer to Shuri Te and is more of a mix of Shorei and Shuri (it developed around the village of Tomari, hence the name, as opposed to Shuri or Naha). Of course, all styles properly taught do share the natural stances.

 

Tomari-te for the most part lost a lot of distinction between Shuri te, largely due to the fact that a lot of Shuri te styles adopted some of the more traditional Tomari te kata, such as Seisan, Wankan Wanshu, Rohai. I'm sure Shorinryu sensei can attest to the existence of seisan, wanshu and rohai within Matsumura Shorin Ryu. Like I said, Tomari is more closely related to Shuri te and sort of merged with it. Tomari, like Shuri, was typified by light, quick snapping movements. Kosaku Matsumora (not the o, different from Matsumura Sokon) taught a lot of people, including Motobu Choki and Kyan Chotoku.

 

Sorry, this one kind of rambled a bit...

 

EDIT: As an aside, family styles like Motobu are supposed to be more the original, unadulterated form of Okinawa te (as opposed to Shuri or Naha styles). They are considered native arts of Okinawa and are heavily involved in circling, not just in the technique itself, but also in the entire motion of the body. Despite Mark Bishop's shadiness, he (and not just him, other authors as well) brings up an important point about its existence.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Shorinryu Sensei: You know me too well, hehe.

 

See? I told you he'd dive in here!

I'm sure Shorinryu sensei can attest to the existence of seisan, wanshu and rohai within Matsumura Shorin Ryu.

 

Correct

 

Thanks for the history less Shorin Ryuu. Glad to have you around to clean up the many holes in my knowledge.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Shorin Ryuu , I would say, actually has better knowledge of many aspects of the art than I do

 

I think you give me more credit that I deserve...

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Shorin Ryuu , I would say, actually has better knowledge of many aspects of the art than I do

 

I think you give me more credit that I deserve...

 

Incorrect bud. Probably my weakest aspect of my nearly 30 years in this art is my knowledge of specifics pertaining to the details of it. Mostly due to the fact of where I live, and my inability to travel to train with higher ranking sensei in the art. It obviously hasn't prevented me from continuing my love for Shorinryu, practice of Shorinryu, or willingness to pass on what little I have learned to others.

 

You're a HUGE asset to the system and thsi forum bud, and I'll take "issue" with anybody that says differently.

 

How long did you say you have been in Shorinryu? I know you read a lot. I picture a guy with glasses, looking like Harry Potter sort of. No offense meant by that.