IsshinRyu credentials

[Jussi Häkkinen]

I've seen some videos of Shimabukuro Tatsuo. I've seen him rotate to the 45 degree angle frequently, despite the tate that he taught to everyone else.

 

That was Kyan's way of punching and is still done in Seibukan - which was founded by Kyan's most long time student, Zenryo Shimabukuro. He didn't start his own style - he just carried on (and his son, Zenpo Shimabukuro, after him) the style Kyan taught to him.

 

45 degree fist is said to be the "old way" of punching and can be found in many Okinawan styles.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Yes, I know (my branch of Kobayashi Shorin Ryu still does this).

 

Both Tatsuo and Zenryo were students of Kyan Chotoku, but Tatsuo tried to emphasize his vertical punch in his teachings of Isshin Ryu (very much his own version of various styles' teachings), but you would often see him still revert to the 45 degree punch, which is the point I was trying to make.

[Isshinryu88]

Actually, Master Shimabuku switched between full twist and vertical punch a few times over the years. In some of the early videos he does it one way during one kata and then the other way later on. I've heard that the rotation is actually due to distance from your attacker. Closer in, the fist only rotates to vertical before it hits. A little further out, 45 degrees. And then the full twist for attacker's at that range. Isshinryu does practice the full twist, although usually only in the context of the "hidden" one we do near the end of Seiuchin kata.

 

One of the more vocal proponents of pressure points, Chris Thomas, was (maybe still is?) involved in Isshinryu. He said that the 45 degree punch fit the angle of the rib cage better than the full twist punch. Of course if you really want to open up a can of worms, there's always the discussion that the full twist was designed to protect the Okinawan school children as they began learning karate way back when.

 

By the way, this change in punching led to some of Master Shimabuku's Okinawan students leaving him. After his death, some also went back to Shorin Ryu and the "old" way of punching. I'd also heard that his son Kichiro had been considering returning to the twist punch. Not sure what happened in that situation.

 

I've always done the vertical punch, even through my travels in different styles. Since I tend towards the 45 angle, it doesn't get noticed much. The thumb on top fist always gets questions though.

 

For the original poster, I get the idea that you are looking at joining a school. If so, where were you looking at?

[isshinryushodan]

master shimabuku also had a third instructor by the name of choki motobu. master kichiro & uezu take equal part in the role of okinawan isshinryu. master harold long and master don nagel brought isshinryu to the states in the mid to late 60's

[Sasori_Te]

isshinryushodan,

 

I'm not sure what you mean by saying that Angi Uezu and Kichiro Shimabuku take equal part in the role of Okinawan Isshinryu.

 

The information I got came from friends, internet sources and a long time student under Kichiro Shimabuku.

[isshinryushodan]

I wouldnt say that the isshinryu syatem was turned over to just one person. I have spent alot of time with both of the masters, and have trained with both several times. Both are still very traditional,and i feel that during that training i was training from master shimabuku as well.

[Sasori_Te]

That is where you would be technically incorrect. The I-Ryu system was turned over to Kichiro upon his father's death. He and he alone can determine what happens to the original I-Ryu lineage. There were many others that disagreed with this decision and formed splinter groups. Angi Uezu worked with Kichiro Shimabuku in the original lineage for some years until they had some sort of falling out and Angi Uezu also left that organization and formed his own.

 

In other words, Kichiro Shimabuku's organization was the only one authorized by Tatsuo Shimabuku.

[HavinFun]

As an IsshinRyu student under maser Angi lineage I will pipe in here

 

Sasori_Te you said

 

After more intensive research on the internet and asking of questions to pwople in different branches of IsshinRyu, I cannot in good conscience become a part of Kichiro Shimabuku's organization.[/Quote]

 

Does that mean you have decided against trying the Isshin ryu system?

 

The stories talk about how Master Shimabuku was going to turn over the "official" lineage to his number one student.... that student was Master Angi. Master Angi has perservered throguhout the turmoil of the isshin ryu system and its splintering so to speak.... but I have found the root of his teachings to be very honorable....and the style to be very enjoyable. I beleive that Master Angi has honored Master Shimabuku and his system, in a way that makes me proud to be a memeber of his lineage. Reagardless of where the

official

chain is.. both systems started from the same root.

[Master Jules]

Im a little leary of anything that was created because someone had a "dream"......It really is the basics of Shorin Ryu and Goju Ryu combined.....I kinda look at it this way.....two 6th grade educations dont give you a high school diploma......Isshin Ryu started receiving lots of popularity because back in the 60's many of the US serviceman began training the Okinawan styles when they were over there.....Guys like Don Nagle made it seem like a very hard core fighting system because in all the competitions, it came down to the Goju guys VS the Isshin Ryu guys......what people forget is that these guys were hardcore fighters in there own right, from their military training......The blocks are very basic, as is the vertical punch....the rotational punch is a much stronger punch, and the circular blocking of Goju is much more advanced than the linear, "basic" blocking method of Isshin Ryu......the difference in the performance of Sanchin kata alone should be a clue that something is drastically missing from the system. Compare the system of Goju and Isshin ryu side by side, and youll see that Goju is much more advanced......good luck and enjoy whichever way you go.

[HavinFun]

Many People receive inspiration from a dream

 

As for 2 six grade educations.... well the roots of Isshin ryu are heavily entrenched in Gojo-ryu/Shorin ryu... it is not 100% of each...

 

100% education in one makes you stronger in one

 

50/50 education in each opens up your mind... and always leaves room for learning....

 

Simplifiyng the system is a good part of Isshin Ryu Karate.... Not sure what being more advanced system has to do with the actual system, Isshin Ryu is not gojo ryu...its straight infightting, quick snapping techniques (yes we even circluar block)are effective, and it willingness to be adaptable to other styles make it effective.

 

what people forget is that these guys were hardcore fighters in there own right, from their military training

 

and these are the people that continue to support and grow Isshinryu.

 

I have not seen the differences of Sanchin kata from Isshin ryu to Gojo Ryu... We use it as a kata to develop inner strength and Breathing... what do you feel is missing from the isshinryu kata to not achive that goal?