IsshinRyu credentials

[Sasori_Te]

I have some questions about IsshinRyu for all you guys that call this style home. I think I'm about to start IsshinRyuand would like to know other viewpoints on a certain few things:

 

1) Shimabuku Tatsuo never received a shodan or a menkyo of any kind before he compiled tha IsshinRyu style. As far as I can determine, he only studied with Kiyan Chotoku and Miyagi Chojun for a grand total of 19 or 20 years. I am a little concerned that he was qualified to initiate his own martial arts style with this limited background.

 

2) Upon Shimabuku Tatsuo's death his style was set to pass to his top Okinawan student. His son became angry with him for not passing the style to him. Shimabuku Tatsuo then relented on his deathbed and passed the style to his son Kichiro. I've also heard from highly placed instructors that trined with Shimabuku Kichiro that he was known more for his business skills than for martial arts skills.

 

3) I'm still not quite sure about the vertical fist with no rotation. I know it can be a strong strike in the correct circumstances, but I'm not sure I agree that it is right for all straight punches and elementary "blocks".

 

I'm by no means an expert on this style and welcome any information to help me make my final decision.

[searcher]

This is like pouring gas on a blazing fire. There are many who claim to be the "true" head and heir to the I-ryu style. As for me My I-ryu instructor was trained by O-sensei's Son-in-law Mater Uezu and he is the head of our system, the Isshinryu Karate and Kobudo Association. Many in the military claim to have been passed the leadership, but as for who is the real head I feel it is anybody's ballgame. As for O-sensei having trained for ONLY 19-20 years, we must remember that it was a very hard time and many heads of different systems trained with their instructors less than that. As for the "lack of rotation" with punching I would suggest you try it, you might find as many have that it is faster or you may feel that it is slower as some do not like this type of punching. I hope this helps you out I will try and give a better response when I am not so pressed for time.

[Sasori_Te]

I agree with you that most other instructors only trained this long in their styles. However, Shimabuku only trained this long in two separate styles (i.e. 7 or 8 years in Shorin Ryu until Kiyan's death and the rest with Miyagi in Goju Ryu.). I would also like to reiterate that he never received any recognition such as a dan rank or a certificate that would allow him to teach either one of these styles. I'm not saying that he wasn't proficient enough to do so, only that he lacked any credentials. I would also like to know more about the "meat and potatoes", if you will, of the philosophy of this system. Thank you for you previous post.

[tommarker]

the non-rotating vertical fist is an element of many chinese styles as well. there's an old article discussing the differences between the verticle fist of I-ryu and the rotating punch of other arts. Another old Journal of Asian Martial Arts article. I'll look it up when I get home.

 

Just think of it as another part of your toolbox.

 

Isshin-ryu's roots are a little hazy, I agree (and sympathize, as a Tang Soo Do practicioner) but it comes down to what you're looking for. If you want something effective, I think Isshin ryu is a great base. If you want something that is "forged in the spirit of our ancestors" or other such things, maybe you'd want to look somewhere else. Also keep in mind that the Isshinryu of today has had a great deal more influence that just Shimabuku. All of the other instructors over the years have added their expertise and experience to the system as well... the system has matured over the years.

 

As for the other stuff, well, politics can cloud everything and people always end up with hurt feelings when they are not given the power they think they deserve. It's a tough question, but on some level, if their stuff works, who cares?

[Sasori_Te]

Well, tommarker, that pretty much sums up what I have been thinking. The instructor at the school I visited seemed very traditional and also very knowledgeable. I'm going to give it a go. However, it's going to be very difficult to override my previous training to stop that fist from rotating. I guess I'll get over it though.

[tommarker]

I like it in a short fast sort of context, but I understand your concern... I mean you do a couple thousand reps over the years, and you get used to punching in a certain way.

 

We had a 4th Dan in Isshinryu join our club, and she had no problem switching over to the rotating first. She seems to like both for different reasons, but believes that the vertical fist is more structurally sound. Since she is an orthopaedic surgeon, I tend to believe her

[searcher]

tommarker it right in that you will not have any difficulty in switching to the vertical fist, but I would not give up on the rotsting fist. They both have their use and place in your skills base. I practise different styles and I use all of the skills I have learned over the years. Also, as tommarker said, the style is a very good base for combatives and is well-suited for American and European builds.

[kempocos]

Sasori_Te - How have you been, I started training with a ISSHINRYU instructor after my RYUKYU KEMPO school closed a few months ago. I find it to be a straight foward style. The vertical fist is not that much differant than the 45 dergree fist I used to do, my old style did not fully rotate the fist to be in line with the floor. I have grown to like it over the rotation since I like in close fighting. They ( my school ) seem more concerrned with snap and speed raw power as some othe KARATE styles are. It is not heavy with KATA they use 8, the names are the same as my old style but movements and delivery are not the same. This has been my obsticale while doing lets chinto falling into the old way while learning thiers.

 

All in all I like the style. good hard training, sweat buckets everyclass

[Shorin Ryuu]

I've seen some videos of Shimabukuro Tatsuo. I've seen him rotate to the 45 degree angle frequently, despite the tate that he taught to everyone else.

[Sasori_Te]

After more intensive research on the internet and asking of questions to pwople in different branches of IsshinRyu, I cannot in good conscience become a part of Kichiro Shimabuku's organization. Apparently he's forged his father's name on certificates dated from the 60's and 70's. There were some other things too, but they matter little. This man obviously has no conception of honor and is nothing more than a money grubber. I'm by no means putting down the style of IsshiRyu. I cannot however be associated with anything headed by this man.