BJJ useful?

[Venezolano]

throw an opponent into another in a multiple attackers situation?

 

LOL! excuse me but that is nothing more than B.S

 

I think there are some people that are watching Power Rangers too much..

 

Althought a throwing art could be very useful in a real situation, to throw an opponent is not that easy, and if you don't believe me, go to a Judo gym for example, and try to attack any Judoka there with multiple attackers at the same time, and you'll notice how many times he would throw ALL the opponents and leave victorious..

 

and for Straight Blast, if you say that BJJ is not good for 1 vs 2 or more, could you tell me what MA is good for multiple opponents? (but that it be tested as BJJ is that it really works, and not to trust in "supposed situations"), only running is good for that kind of situations

[AngryMatt]

Learn the whole art of taijitsu, not just the judo or BJJ components of it. There are no martial arts out there that realistically prepare you for multiple attackers. There are, however, techniques in taijitsu that give you a better chance however most of them are purely defensive.

 

The goal is to get in a position where you are in a 1 on 1 situation for at least 3 seconds. Then your striking techniques come into place. If you hit the right points on the proper meridians, you can conceivably survive.

 

But if you take on more than one trained individual, you are going to lose. Taking on more than about three or four untrained guys is extraordinarily dangerous and you're only going to get out of this if you've been training for 10 years or more and you get a fair amount of luck.

 

BJJ is good for one on one combat, and the art of taijitsu is a pure combat art. No sport. So I would suggest training in the parent art of judo and BJJ if you are looking for combat training. But be forewarned, when you are training in this, it is COMBAT TRAINING. I've got plenty of bruises and popped my knee out of its socket temporarily when having a footlock applied to my right leg by another fairly untrained student like myself. Thank God it popped right back in... but bottom line is that you're probably going to get hurt at one point.

[Gumbi]

Learn the whole art of taijitsu, not just the judo or BJJ components of it. There are no martial arts out there that realistically prepare you for multiple attackers. There are, however, techniques in taijitsu that give you a better chance however most of them are purely defensive.

 

Dont get me wrong here (Im not trying to slam your style) but Tai Jitsu hasnt proved itself as being one of the more effective styles for 1 on 1 fighting, let alone 2 on 1.

The goal is to get in a position where you are in a 1 on 1 situation for at least 3 seconds. Then your striking techniques come into place. If you hit the right points on the proper meridians, you can conceivably survive.

 

Meridians?

 

As far as aiming in the right spot to knock someone out/disable them, thats no less difficult than hitting them in the jaw with a solid right cross- in other words, its very difficult to do, easy to theorize.

 

 

BJJ is good for one on one combat, and the art of taijitsu is a pure combat art. No sport. So I would suggest training in the parent art of judo and BJJ if you are looking for combat training. But be forewarned, when you are training in this, it is COMBAT TRAINING.

 

Vitually ALL sportive martial arts have proven more effective than so called combat arts in all venues of competition (including challenge matches with Judo vs JJJ and BJJ vs JJJ). All skills you are taught in martial arts are physical skills, and therefore need to be developed. Competitions allow a place for these skills to be developed, as does the live sparring held in classes of sportive MA's.

 

If all you do is train moves without actually sparring live with people, you're not advancing your skill as much as you'd like to think.

[Harmony]

Just my opinion here, but if anyone is ever really attacked by suprise you should consider a few things. Regardless of the style you choose, or styles, there are aspects you need to train in to handle a real attack. Psychologically, you need to train yourself to not think like a victim, and react as such. This has to be trained on as well as techniques. Plus you need to be aware of the physical things happening to your body like adrenaline dumping, increase in blood pressure, fight or flight response, and freezing up. When training for real combat it is important not only prepare you body, but also your mind so that you can react and apply whatever your chosen techniques are. Even black belts can and have been easily hurt and beaten in street situations because they never really trained to develop those types of skills. Technique is important, but while deciding whether you prefer to throw, punch , kick, or grapple them, be sure you train yourself to remain calm and keep your focus under the stress of a surprise attack.

[AngryMatt]

Dont get me wrong here (Im not trying to slam your style) but Tai Jitsu hasnt proved itself as being one of the more effective styles for 1 on 1 fighting, let alone 2 on 1.

Really? Because I'm pretty sure Bruce Lee would tell you different. Where do you think JKD came from?

Meridians?

 

As far as aiming in the right spot to knock someone out/disable them, thats no less difficult than hitting them in the jaw with a solid right cross- in other words, its very difficult to do, easy to theorize.

I've been training just for a few months and I can hit plenty of pressure point shots in the neck, chest, arms and hips. It's actually pretty easy once your get hit in that spot a few dozen times. In a real fight? Always go for what finishes it fast... throat shots.

Vitually ALL sportive martial arts have proven more effective than so called combat arts in all venues of competition (including challenge matches with Judo vs JJJ and BJJ vs JJJ). All skills you are taught in martial arts are physical skills, and therefore need to be developed. Competitions allow a place for these skills to be developed, as does the live sparring held in classes of sportive MA's.

 

If all you do is train moves without actually sparring live with people, you're not advancing your skill as much as you'd like to think.

 

And why is that do you think? Because there are rules in those competitions. There are no rules on the street. Bottom line is that judo, BJJ, all of that is built from the combat art of taijitsu. They are different aspects of the complete art. So obviously someone who is geared SOLELY ON ONE ASPECT OF THE ART is going to be better in competition than the all around guy who can't use his strikes, distractions or anything outside the rules of the competition.

 

As far as live sparring goes, my sensei does plenty of it two or three times a week with full gear. I know for a fact that I'm not ready for it. Now does that keep us from rolling with one another with BJJ rules in effect? No. But speaking as a wrestler as well, what hones your skill is drilling technique, not "scrimmaging." Same goes for any sport or art for that matter.

[Gumbi]

 

Really? Because I'm pretty sure Bruce Lee would tell you different. Where do you think JKD came from?

 

Im sure Bruce wouldnt tell me anything different- hes dead. As far as JKD is concerned, its a philosophy, not a style. It was the idea of using whatever works. And around the time of his death, Bruce was studying LOTS of Judo/groundfighting

 

I've been training just for a few months and I can hit plenty of pressure point shots in the neck, chest, arms and hips. It's actually pretty easy once your get hit in that spot a few dozen times. In a real fight? Always go for what finishes it fast... throat shots.

 

EVERYONE tries to finish the fight as quickly or as efficiently as possible. The throat is often well protected, since fighters tuck their chin (not to protect their throat, but to protect their chin) so it would be just as difficult to hit the throat as would be the chin. Its not like you're the first person to think of hitting someone in the throat, eyes, or groin. Its not as easy nor does it work as well as you seem to be implying.

 

As far as pressure points, do you seriously think they're going to disable a fighter?

 

 

And why is that do you think? Because there are rules in those competitions. There are no rules on the street. Bottom line is that judo, BJJ, all of that is built from the combat art of taijitsu.

 

Hold it right there- do NOT start with one of these "too d34dly for teh ring" arguments. Early MMA competitions allows virtually all techniques, and some in Brazil still hold true to these rules. The bottom line is that JJJ DID NOT fair well in these competitions. Now, you claim that you can hit the eyes/throat of an opponent effectively enough in a "real fight" to disable him/have different outcome than history has shown. All the techniques from BJJ are in JJJ, which means these guys knew the same techniques. If they proved incapable of doing these simple techniques, such as armbars and chokes, what makes you think you can do all the deadly stuff you claim you can do?

 

 

They are different aspects of the complete art. So obviously someone who is geared SOLELY ON ONE ASPECT OF THE ART is going to be better in competition than the all around guy who can't use his strikes, distractions or anything outside the rules of the competition.

 

Strikes are allowed in MMA competition. As far as simple grappling competition, to have people be somewhat lesser skilled on the ground than those who ONLY do the ground would be acceptable. Say, maybe a belt behind? Two belts would be pushing it though.....

 

However, I've never trained with a straight JJJ black belt (with many years training) whos skilled surpased that of an experienced BJJ white belt (with many months training).

 

Now, as far the techniques of JJJ go, Im not sold on their striking techniques, simply because many of them were used when samurai's wore armor. Movements were based on using the momentum of the armor to aid in the strike and such. With a pair of jeans and t-shirt, this doesnt transfer over well.

 

The throws and the grappling techniques are pretty much all the same. The problem lies in the method they teach these techniques and the way the students refine them.

 

 

 

 

But speaking as a wrestler as well, what hones your skill is drilling technique, not "scrimmaging." Same goes for any sport or art for that matter.

 

Its completely different to drill the move on a non resisting opponent, and then to set it up against someone who's actively trying to defeat you.

[AngryMatt]

Look, I don't want to get into a huge debate over the history of the arts or rip on bjj because I think it's a fantastic art. It's just limited, that's all.

 

Plus, I'm at a disadvantage in this debate anyway. I have very limited background knowledge of all the various martial arts, and while I know my UFC and PRIDE, I'm unfamiliar with most of the Brazilian feds. I do know they are all bare fisted and pretty much no holds barred, but that's about it.

 

This is a fight I would normally walk, or run, away from... because I'm outclassed. I'm no idiot. But bottom line is that perhaps you haven't met a jjj black belt who has a background in freestyle wrestling and emphasizes ground work. He just makes sure we also know the strikes. Why? To better setup the ground stuff.

 

My sensei is a damn smart person, as is his instructor: "99% of the fights you are in are going to end up on the ground. So you better know your ground work." The strikes are used here to better set up the ground fighting... unless you know the knockout combinations which I don't and probably will never learn.

 

Who knows? I'm no historian and while I detest copping out of a good old fashioned interweb brawl, I feel I must do so. If jjj fighters were, as you claim, unable to do simple things like armbars, footlocks, chokes and other standard submissions... I must ask what the hell COULD they do? And for that matter, why in God's name aren't they trained to do those simple things? Unless what I'm being taught is "non-traditional taijitsu" I have no idea what is going on here.

 

You make it sound as if the parent art to bjj and the sister of ninjitsu is just worthless. Though my knowledge is, again, admittedly limited, somehow I really doubt that.

[ravenzoom]

To come back to the original topic, if you have brawls in your neighboorhood where you are attacked by more than one person, I would suggest a striking art. BJJ is very effective but I would prefer standing up as much as possible in a fight. In my opinion, for what concerns street fights, i believe BJJ is a great complimentary art, but I wouldn't choose it if I only had to pick one. Someone really gave a good advice early on in the post in that you should pick up a srtiking art with Judo. You sting him momentarily with a puch or kick (or finish him off if you can) and get in for a crushing throw that could very easily end up the fight. Judo is also good on the ground for your average Joe, so if you mix up a striking art with Judo I believe you're a pretty diversified street fighter.

[Gumbi]

To come back to the original topic, if you have brawls in your neighboorhood where you are attacked by more than one person, I would suggest a striking art. BJJ is very effective but I would prefer standing up as much as possible in a fight.

 

Nothing wrong with preferences, but the smaller you are the more likely you may fight a larger opponent should you get into a fight. Someone who's say, 50lbs heavier than you and decides that he wants to tackle you to the ground stands a much better chance. If you're one of those guys who's big and strong, well then thats why guys like me had to learn BJJ to fight guys like you

 

I prefer to be experienced in a grappling art, simply because if you take a striking art, you're only proficient in one phase of fighting (free movement) but if you take a grappling art you're most likely to be trained in at least 2 of the 3 and you can very well throw knees, elbows, and headbutts from a clinch.

 

 

In my opinion, for what concerns street fights, i believe BJJ is a great complimentary art, but I wouldn't choose it if I only had to pick one. Someone really gave a good advice early on in the post in that you should pick up a srtiking art with Judo.

 

Well then, thats not really one art either is it?

Judo is also good on the ground for your average Joe, so if you mix up a striking art with Judo I believe you're a pretty diversified street fighter.

 

Absolutely

[jedimc]

Talking about peoples weights I just saw a clip were royce gracie versus a sumo wrestler lol

 

http://www.roycegracie.tv/AkebonoVsRoyce.wmv