Chi-I-Do

[Master Jules]

Yep....and both those systems are traced back to AikiJuJitsu.

[SevenStar]

And when you further research that (Jiu Jitsu), it shows a lineage outside of Japan.

 

you were right until you said this part. Jujutsu cannot be accurately traced beyond japan. There are various claims, but none that are historically verified. The main one is that a kempo master from china had run across a man in his travels who studied chin na. He only learned three locks from the man, and he showed the three locks to three japanese men. Those three men expaneded the three locks into an entire system of locks and created the first three jujutsu styles.

 

As I said, that is word of mouth "history" and has never been verified. There are also several claims that jujutsu was created and developed in japan. The world will never really know.

 

Some also say that jj came from shuai chiao, which is also false. Actually, shuai chiao bears more resemblence to sumo than jujutsu.

[47MartialMan]

Yes, but given the nature of things, and the Japanese migration. Many whom had traveled back into mainland China. Also, wasn't that a particular "family" of AikiJuJitsu. Didn't those family records state that the long time founder traveled to China? Not that I am saying this is true. And word of mouth, as well as some documented (by the author's design) cannot completely, hold true. Such is the case with Shaolin. And TKD not being composed from ancient concepts (their katas look like Japanese). I have controversal issues with those as well.

[SevenStar]

TKD is the result of many koreans thinking that tang soo do looked "too japanese". They wanted an art that expressed their own flair and style, thus tkd was born.

[Master Jules]

That is my understanding as well Seven.

[Master Jules]

That is my understanding as well Seven.

[47MartialMan]

TKD is the result of many koreans thinking that tang soo do looked "too japanese". They wanted an art that expressed their own flair and style, thus tkd was born.

 

The result, TKD Katas emulate Japanese (Shotokan) with the addition of some high kicks. Actually, per your statement, it is the other way around, Tang So Do, pays homage to Chinese systems and flowing movement. Look well into Shtokans katas and compare them TKD. To shake the Japanese influence, other TKD organizations were created and new katas were introduced. My TKD Korean instructor has shed light of this to me. In fact, he, and many, are trying to dis-associate with TKD aktogether. Showing that they teach Hapkido exclusively. My Korean TKD instructor has a new name for his school. I think it is Hamudo, or something like that. Kuk Sol Won and Tang So Do, have a different name thus having a different identity, not by association. At lasty, I am not trying to bash TKD.

[scottnshelly]

I have studied Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do for a long time, and i agree that Tae Kwon Do's poomses do have a lot of Japanese influence. At an advanced level, i even learned the Korean rendition of a Japanese Black Belt kata. I can't recall the name of it, or which one at the time becuase i quit forms altogether about 3 years ago.

 

I had always understood that TKD came before TSD, though. I always heard it as TSD was a branch off of TKD. Have i heard wrong?

[47MartialMan]

Actually it is the other way around, TKD, came from TSD (and others). According to my Korean master and my research, TSD came before TKD and it is practiced much different. To sum up history, the Korean Gov wanted a national sport. Other countries had theirs, China-gymnastics-etc., US, Baseball, etc., Japan-Sumo, Judo,etc. In the mid 1950's, there was a conference of Korea's Chung Do Kwan masters. These masters combined their methods and organized a structure under the influence, and for the acceptance of, Korean Gen Hong Hi Choi. (I think this was his name).

 

Tang Soo Do, is not centuries old either. It was pre TKD. Develpoed in the 1930's by a Korean master Hwang Kee (if I am not mistaken).

 

Now, according my Korean master, whom is now retired (he is 65), most of the Korean culture was wiped out resulting from the Japanese invasion WWII. He disputes the claims of taekyon (from which TKD derived its name) and the three kingdom era as Korea's martial art birthplace. His explanation, as I have written in my journals: The old arts of Soo Bahk Do, Sado Mu Soo, Kong Jong Mu Sool were heavily influenced by Buldo Mu Sool (Buddhist Temple Art) Hmmn, it would seem much martial art roots going back to China and Buddhism. And where is Buddhist roots going back to?

 

My journals (diaries) are volumes of notebooks of my experiences in martial arts, martial art learning and instruction. Forced upon me when I was 10, from my mother in an attempt to improve my reading/writing skills. She thought I maybe motivated by something that I enjoyed. She was right. And I enjoy re-reading my journals and marvel of their transitions of my juvenile to adulthood as reflected in the writings.

[scottnshelly]

Thanks for the info. I knew a little of the history of TKD because my instructor's instructor was Korean. The school that i attended kept very true to tradition as much as possible.

 

Maybe that's why they liked to imply that TSD derived from TKD.