Drunken Monkey Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 For the most part, students revere their instructors, which is fine. If students have no prior knowledge of martial arts however, they will try to imitate the instructor to as many details as possible. They may become skilled, but will they really have accomplished finding themselves with the exact techniques of another the student revering the instructor is not a problem with having an instructor. it is a 'fault' with the student. what difference is this to your reverence of bruce lee? and this 'imitating' you mention is not of the instructor, the student should be imitating the style. this is the first phase. learning and abiding by the principles. take bruce lee. he learnt the wing chun way of punching. he learnt the wing chun way of standing. he learnt the wing chun way of stepping. he did not copy what yip man did or what william cheung did or what wong shun leung did. he copied what wing chun did. after doing this for a while he began to see how HE could do things better. this is the second phase, you taking control of the movement; dissolving the principle. after doing this you will then 'free'. where you are simply doing your own way that is at the same time wing chun and not wing chun. one thing bruce lee said when asked about what jkd was. his simple answer was 'pak sau and hip'. as bruce lee said. stick to the nucleus liberate fro the nucleus return to the original freedom what you and lot of people do, is miss out that first vital part of learning. jkd isn't about not learning forms and traditional styles. it is about not being limited in what you learn. BUT you do have to learn first as it has been said. jkd is a process. part of that process involves the learning of the traditional. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47MartialMan Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I VERY MUCH AGREE BRAVO DM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostlySykanRyu Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 You make valid points, perhaps I was getting carried away, exaggerating a point so to speak. My reverence for Bruce Lee is existant, but limited. I do not try to imitate him, for few can, I don't have the time to devote to training that he did...and there are techniques that worked for him that surely will not for me. I take his philosophy and basic techniques only. As I read my posts I see the impression I've been giving, and I've been hasty in my posts (I'm exhausted and have little time, you all know the drill). To condemn the art of another is to condemn your own as well. We all have the same origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47MartialMan Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Its ok JKD man, posts are taken from different perspectives. Every author has a different writing style thus the conveyance is misconstrued. DM's last post, per two above yours, pretty much sums up "why" a instructor is needed in the first place. It does not matter on the style/system. Can one grab a philosophy without being taught the fundamentals? If I am not mistaken (correct me DM), the instructor has to be the foundation or the base to start you on your path. The same as anyone that taught you how to read, write, dress, drive, etc. Someone should be there to teach the basics, help you correct certain mistakes. Then, through learned ability, you form yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Monkey Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 actually, they're not really my points. they're dan inosanto's points. they are things he said regarding what bruce lee has said or things about bruce lee. jkd is a complex thing. it isn't a 'way' as such because to call it a way is to say it is a fixed thing. it is a process. more correctly, it is a process specific to you. you don't follow jkd. you do something that allows you to free yourself from what you are training in. that freedom is jkd but at the same time it isn't beause your freedom is personal to you. there remains the possibilty that your personal jkd ends up being pure wing chun or pure karate or any other singular style because it remains what you do best and you have no need for anything else. the point is, you don't know until you have trained in other styles to see what works for you. again, i go back to needing proper training in a traditional manner to begin with in order to learn properly so taht you can make fair judgement. dan inosanto calls his, as do many others, jun fan jeet kune do because it is based on bruce lee's learning. as such, in that class you are taught wing chun elements in the form of simple drills and chi sau. you are taught silat and kali drills. muay thai. western boxing. savate. everything that bruce lee and his direct students learnt, trained and practiced with. those things are taught to you, properly by qualified instructors so that you can fully understand not what to do, but why you do it and why it works. you learn correct form. as i said earlier; there is a difference between 'having no form' and having 'no form'. the point of learning how and why you do things gives you knowledge of good form. when you know what makes good form, you are free to fight/move without reference to the 'fixed' versions of techniques. that is the 'formless form'. and this is where a lot of people get a little 'jumpy' about the jkd thing. jkd reads like what most martial arts people do anyway, once beyond basic training. look at wing chun. the third form teaches you to break every single rule that is fundemental to wing chun. i.e you learn a set of rules, then you learn to ignore those rules or drunken principles where you disregard previous training about structure and angles? how different is this to jkd principles? in all things you first have to learn what that thing is before you can free yourself it. before freeing yourself from it, you first have to be 'captured' by it. what jkd emphasises is no limitations. don't be bound by any one style or way. i.e don't get stuck in one school or style. you get away from doing a wing chun punch or a muay thai kick and you just punch and kick. but of course, i go back to what i said earlier. these punches and kicks still need good form. which goes back to a qualified instructor. there's a reson why bruce lee took a modifed ying yang symbol to represent jkd. everything goes around. everything flows into each other. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Monkey Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 If I am not mistaken (correct me DM), the instructor has to be the foundation or the base to start you on your path. The same as anyone that taught you how to read, write, dress, drive, etc. that is exactly it. before you go and compose your 500,000 word work of modern literature breaking every 'rule' of composition, you first have to learn what it is to write, to spell, to construct a sentence, to form a plot..... in fact it just came to me. bruce lee didn't create jkd. james joyce did. have a look at "finnegans wake" for an even earlier example of jkd principles in action! wow.... can't believe i didn't see it earlier! post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47MartialMan Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Hmmn, could you elaborate a little more: in fact it just came to me. bruce lee didn't create jkd. james joyce did. have a look at "finnegans wake" for an even earlier example of jkd principles in action! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Monkey Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 (edited) well, the next time you're in a book store, pick up a copy of "finnegans wake" by james joyce and you will see..... or should that be see the nestimes yore in a book stares, pucker up a corpses of "finnegans wake" by james joyce" and you will and no, i've not gone crazy...... Edited September 17, 2004 by Drunken Monkey post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47MartialMan Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 See what? I came from a website on it. What is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Monkey Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 the writing style. breaks every rule on literature. or it might just be total rubbish.... post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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