difference between sparring and real fighting

[delta1]

The difference is simple: intent! Most of the posts have alluded to this in one way or another, but I think this one word summs it all up nicely. Once you realize that the intent is different in sparing vs. a real fight, you can adjust the intent of your sparing to address the intent of a real fight. First and foremost, start thinking of sparing as training for the real thing and not as a competition. Leave your ego in the dressing room. If you aren't getting the crap beat out of you periodically, you aren't trying to learn and work on new skills; you're not pushing yourself with tougher opponents. You are training in a relatively safe environment to take on the conditions in a violent and dangerouse confrontation- spar like it!

 

Pad up and go at it with contact sometimes. And don't tell us that you are able to go at it without pads because it is more realistic. *! I've been there, and the less protection you have, the more you and your partner have to adjust your intent when you fight in order not to hurt each other. If you think you're that tough, you'll learn more by hitting the streets and going at it with real intent. Whatever trips your trigger, but I know one excellent senior TKDist that trained that way. He and a friend would go to the biker bars in the 60's and pick fights to try out their skills. He has arthritus worse than me now, and he came close to being permanently disabled or killed a few times. He doesn't recomend the method, and for once I think I'll listen to experience instead of trying it myself.

 

When your intent is to learn, you look for ways to make sparing more realistic. Add stress to the fight (which should be the subject of a whole new thread), work around obstacles and on varrying surfaces, and with different shoes. Add weapons, and stert the sparing session with a scenario where the conflict builds to a sudden explosion of violence, or you are sudenly jumped. Find a building you can set up as a 'house of horrors'. Spar in low light. If you can afford it, get a couple of full body suits and go almost NHB- which means that ground is an option, by the way. Some people don't like the suits because they restrict your movement and slow you down. But, think about it. Ever experience fear, or the hyperadrenalized state of conflict? The effect is called 'tachypsyche', where your brain speeds up to the point your body feels like it's moving through mollasses. Put on the suit and train for that feeling, as well as the hits! The more protection you have, the more strikes you can train to throw and defend.

 

The short of it is that you need to adjust the intent of your sparing to the reality of the intent in a fight.

[47MartialMan]

Pad up and go at it with contact sometimes. And don't tell us that you are able to go at it without pads because it is more realistic. *! I've been there, and the less protection you have, the more you and your partner have to adjust your intent when you fight in order not to hurt each other.

 

When your intent is to learn, you look for ways to make sparing more realistic. Add stress to the fight (which should be the subject of a whole new thread), work around obstacles and on varrying surfaces, and with different shoes. Add weapons, and stert the sparing session with a scenario where the conflict builds to a sudden explosion of violence, or you are sudenly jumped. Find a building you can set up as a 'house of horrors'. Spar in low light. If you can afford it, get a couple of full body suits and go almost NHB- which means that ground is an option, by the way. Some people don't like the suits because they restrict your movement and slow you down. But, think about it. Ever experience fear, or the hyperadrenalized state of conflict? The effect is called 'tachypsyche', where your brain speeds up to the point your body feels like it's moving through mollasses. Put on the suit and train for that feeling, as well as the hits! The more protection you have, the more strikes you can train to throw and defend.

 

The short of it is that you need to adjust the intent of your sparing to the reality of the intent in a fight.

 

Yeah, been there, done that....

 

In one of the systems that I had studied, for a higher level, one by one, we were told to go into a room. It was small and poorly lit. Suddenly people were in there attacking you. They were full padded and the "victim" was not. There was a "timer" set. The "victim" had so much time to exit the room via the other end. The attackers were padded (except for their hands) to emulate stronger opponents. One had to hit hard to back them up in order to get to that exit. Many injuries were substained, but none too bad as hospitalization (that I know of).

 

Other situations were set up like this. the instructor of that particluar system wanted his high rankers to "back up" their level. it was a grueling system to practice. No juveniles were there.

[dear john]

i like these answers, but i think i need to clarify something

 

it is not that we have no sparring at all, it is just that the moves we prctice are literally impossible to practice with full out.

 

we have a few things we sparr with, but most of the moves cant be done.

 

i take two MA's

 

tae kwon do and Dan Zan Ryu Zenyo Bujutsu

 

in TKD sparring can be done almost full out with pads

 

but in jujitsu our sparring is so light becuase any stronger and people would get seriously hurt.

[gcav]

Theres not a lot of schools that have "all out full contact" sparring. The ones that do are usually "sports" with pro fighters. I know some of them that will go full out in the ring while getting ready for an important match.

[47MartialMan]

i like these answers, but i think i need to clarify something

 

it is not that we have no sparring at all, it is just that the moves we prctice are literally impossible to practice with full out.

 

we have a few things we sparr with, but most of the moves cant be done.

 

i take two MA's

 

tae kwon do and Dan Zan Ryu Zenyo Bujutsu

 

in TKD sparring can be done almost full out with pads

 

but in jujitsu our sparring is so light becuase any stronger and people would get seriously hurt.

 

There you have it. Certain moves cannot be practiced full. Injury is a concern.

[Drunken Monkey]

depends.

 

if not being able to 'complete' dangerous moves hamper your training, then how come the grappling guys do so well?

 

i mean, the majority of their techniques breaks bones/joints, cause unconsciousness etc etc.

 

i don't see it as being a valid excuse

 

and yes, i think it is just an excuse.

 

like delta said, why can't you pad up, even just lightly to test moves?

 

you don't need to go full on body armour and all taht but why can't you get yourself a hear gear of some sort and a pair of decent gloves.

 

so you can't do a few moves but so what?

 

are you saying that the basic moves of your style don't work?

 

that you have to do 'advancced' dangerous techniques to win a fight?

[47MartialMan]

come on cetain moves cause extreme injury. you are not going to do those full.

[dear john]

the reason why you cant use pads is becease most of the moves are joint locks and breaks. there really isnt anything to wear. pads in this martial art are pretty useless.

 

and when did i ever say that the basic moves of my martial art do not work.

 

i never said that.

 

i simply said it was hard to practice them. where did this thought come from.

[Drunken Monkey]

**edited cos i missed a post**

 

(sorry.

 

i was more addressing the more general issues that are associated with the padded sparring debate)

 

i am fully aware that locks cannot be completed to the fulest because of injury but that's a slightly different debate.

 

besides, i'm not nearly qualified enough to address that area

 

hey, i'm not saying they don't exist

 

but do you really need to do them to the extreme?

 

i know, in a life or death situation you will do what ever it takes

 

but

 

again, they are only dangerous if done to the extreme.

 

it is not safe to stick your fingers in someone else's eyes but if you don't even approximate it, what's the point of 'pretending' to practice it.

 

let's not even go into the mentality of doing something as intrusive as that.

 

i don't know.

 

maybe i say this cos of how i have trained in the past.

 

i don't like to talk about things that i cannot do.

 

i don't care if i have all sorts of eye pokes, throat grabs, arm breaks in what i train.

 

if i don't know 100% that i can 'do' them, as far as i'm concerned,

 

i don't know they work (for me).

 

i have done the headgear and gloves thing and i have to say that there was very little i couldn't do to my sparring partner.

 

the best thing about padding up wasn't that i could use the 'deadly' techniques,

 

the best thing was being able to use BASIC techniques to the fullest.

 

i could punch your head targets repeatedly as hard as i could.

 

i could elbow your head targets repeatedly as hard as i could.

 

i could really jerk on your head as hard as i could.

 

i could drive punches into body area as hard as i could.

 

the next best thing was that the same could happen to me.

 

everything i could do, my partner could do too.

 

what did i lose?

 

jabs to the eyes

 

(which i never do anyway.....)

 

kicks to the knees that would cause damage

 

(not that i don't kick to the knee...)

 

hits to the throat

 

(but i kinda do these without padding anyway... well, how I attack the throat...)

 

it's not much compared to what i can still do.

 

the problem with light sparring is that you can never approximate what happens when you get hit, when things don't go according to how you want.

 

this is one of the problems inherent in chi sau.

 

it is, at the end of the day, a game.

 

it translates into fighting but it doesn't have the same level of pressure.

 

sure you could apply the pressure,

 

but then it is no longer chi sau.

 

(please forgive me non-wing chun guys for breaking into wing chun talk...)

 

sparring in this way also tightens up your game.

 

normally, during un-protected sparring, you play at the edge of your range.

 

(but may not always be the case; depends on your style)

 

protected sparring closes that range up.

 

for a style like mine, that is a very important aspect.

 

and

 

the fact that you can go in a little harder,

 

you can begin to see what does or doesn't work.

 

AND

 

because both sides are 'safe' your partner is going to be more willing to 'absorb a few hits,

 

again, adding pressure.

 

end result, you make sure that you are doing more than enough to take him down.

 

you don't stop the hit in front of his face, then both of you pause while you do a little display of cyling in front of his face.

 

you punch the front of his head gear (caged in my case) and proceed to rock his head with continuous punches until he goes down.

 

breaking into a lock if his arm presents itself or kick his knee if he begins to buckle and turn;

 

do what-ever you can see/think/feel.

 

also, because you are going in harder and going to be taking actual hard hits,

 

everything about you matters more.

 

your stance really has to work.

 

your footwork has to be light and natural.

 

your balance has to be good.

 

you body structure has to be correct.

 

timing, technique, execution, angles, everything is worked in a way that no other type of training works them.

 

ok, you don't have to do this.

 

training without this type of pressure is fine but it only gets you so far.

 

the best way to really test your martial/fighting arts under pressure?

 

fight.

 

next best way?

 

fight with padding.

 

dont get me wrong.

 

i'm not saying that this is the be all and end all

 

as the guys who've been here longer will know that i'm an advocate of all types of training.

 

just saying that there is a lot to be gained from it.

 

AND

 

it isn't really valid to say that it hampers you in any way.

 

padded sparring does have its flaws.

 

but then so does unpadded.....

 

they both show you different things

 

and

 

becaue they show you different things

 

hopefully, you will learn different things from them.

 

**edit number two**

 

i have also just re-read this thread and realised that i have taken a massive tangent from the topic....

[delta1]

Guys, don't be too literal. Of course there are some moves that can not be applied full out, even with a suit. There are allways some areas that you will have to adjust your intent so as not to hurt your partner. The point is, if you are training for reality, try to make some of your sparing as realistic as possible.

 

And, there are ways to practice even the most deadly of moves. If you fear that you can not safely adjust your intent with a particular move in full sparing, try it in slow sparing. Not as good as testing it in full speed sparing, but at least you are working it in free-flow, with a somewhat resisting partner. You get to see the openings develope, and get somewhat of a feel for it. My opinion is that the 'it's too deadly' argument is usually an excuse. Since Kano whupped up on the Jiujitsu folks, it hasn't really been a valid argument any how.