Good old fashion Kali/Escrima

[Sphintai]

I was wondering the pros and cons of Escrima sticks and the training, could anyone explain?

[delta1]

A lot of the TKD schools in my region also train Modern Arnis. It adds flow (which TKD as taught in the US lacks), as well as an excellant weapons system. We are also fortunate to have some excellant FMA instructors scattered around the state, not the least of which is Datu Kelly Wardon over in Seattle. I go to their seminars and train with them to get a better understanding and add a new deminsion to my base (Kenpo). The FMA's are extremely adaptable as well as effective as stand alone systems.

 

Downside- there is a tendency to fall into the trap of trying to keep your opponent at bay with your weapon instead of going in for the kill. This is a common problem with TKD and their emphasis on kicks, so you should make an effort not to get hung up there in two systems (actually, you should be careful not to get hung up there in either system, as TKD actually has some good in close skills).

 

The other thing that bothers some people is the sparing. If you think it hurts to fight empty hands with hard contact, try it with sticks! But it is a lot of fun. The headgear and gloves are a little expensive, but they are really the only protection you need. They make a full body suit specifically for stick fighting, but the only people I've seen wear one is kids.

[JerryLove]

The headgear and gloves are a little expensive, but they are really the only protection you need.

 

I like these for working drills. My problem comes in when there is more mixed fighting (read Dog brothers). Sticks (when one is using a stick, and not a knife the same way), are *most* effective on the head, throat, and hand. By protecting those it *can* lead to very bad habits.

[delta1]

JL, very true, and it is up to the practitioner to be aware of this and train as though these were unprotected. But not protecting these when stick fighting, even with padded sticks- but especially when going live stick- can lead to some seriously bad injuries.

 

This brings up another point: most stick fighting is done with padded sticks. And that hurts enough. You really couldn't take too much live stick (the real deal, no padding). But when you do go live stick, or watch someone else do it, you notice that the combatants don't take nearly as many chances. Both are good, but you need to be aware of the differences and not develope bad habbits.

 

Training in the martial arts allways has some trade offs in order not to hurt each other too much. We have to use our intelect to get as close to reality as possible, and not take unrealistic chances because we have padding or limmits on moves.

 

Or, put more succinctly:

Sticks are *most* effective on the head, throat, and hand. By protecting those it *can* lead to very bad habits.

[thaiboxerken]

I really don't think there is much of a "con" in training Kali, as a system, it works from kicking range to the ground and all ranges in between.

 

"Downside- there is a tendency to fall into the trap of trying to keep your opponent at bay with your weapon instead of going in for the kill. "

 

I don't know who your instructor was/is, but that is not the case from the people I've learned. Long-range is taught first because it keeps you safest from attacks, but medium and short ranges are also taught so you can "go in for the kill". However.. if you don't want to go to jail, you may not want to kill.

[thaiboxerken]

As far as protection goes, I think it's worth using it. To avoid bad habits, like relying on your protection, you just have to be smart enough to realize that the smack you just recieved on your headgear probably would've done you in. I think the SCA calls people that ignore the smacks "rhino skin", don't be one.

[delta1]

"Downside- there is a tendency to fall into the trap of trying to keep your opponent at bay with your weapon instead of going in for the kill. "

 

I don't know who your instructor was/is, but that is not the case from the people I've learned. Long-range is taught first because it keeps you safest from attacks, but medium and short ranges are also taught so you can "go in for the kill". However.. if you don't want to go to jail, you may not want to kill.

 

I didn't get that from any of the people I've worked out with. But I have seen it in some schools, and the ones I worked with would eat them alive! These guys would take you to the ground in a heartbeat, as well as move in and chew you up. One of their greatest pleasures was to get in on a 'fencer' and 'tiger stripe' him! And, 'going in for the kill' is just an expression, but a pretty applicable one if you are stick fighting!

[thaiboxerken]

That's your experience. My "style" of Kali is actually more geared towards getting into short range. It probably has more to do with instructors and training than the actual system.

[delta1]

True, it would have more to do with their particular school. FMA's should fight at largo, medio, and corto, as well as grappling. I've worked with Modern Arnis, and they do all this. But their grappling was mostly standup. The Kali guys I worked with were crazy, and ground was most definately an option, I don't care how hard it was! Both fought live stick periodically, with minimum protection. And typical of seriouse FMA's, you did not back down from a friendly offer to beat the heck out of each other!

 

Crazy bunch! But i have to say that for pure enjoyment, I don't think you can beat the FMA's. And they are effective, when done right. But, like I said earlier, there can be a tendency to try to hold the opponent off with your weapon, and I've seen it when we got together with other FMA schools. It's like TKD, where a lot of people try to hold you off with kicks. But once inside, they are finished! It's too bad as well, as TKD has some excellant in close moves, when taught as a fighting art. We had one little guy in Kali that, if you were hesitant at all, would do a flying bridge and be in so fast that you didn't know what was happening 'till your ribs were lit up! He could tiger stripe you so fast, then take you down for the coup de gras!

 

Any way, I did not mean to imply that all FMA's fence. It is just a tendency to be aware of and avoid, especially as a begginer. And a good school will soon work that out of you.

[thaiboxerken]

Any way, I did not mean to imply that all FMA's fence. It is just a tendency to be aware of and avoid, especially as a begginer. And a good school will soon work that out of you.

 

Well, if you're talking about sparring to simulate a real fight, I think "fencing" as you call it is probably not a bad idea. I mean, isn't the stick supposed to represent a sword? Or do you guys just play it like dog brothers, where the stick is a stick?