To strike or to grapple

[Hudson]

Heres the way I feel. Ground fighting and grappling are the least uncomfortable places to be to fight. Movement is restricted and then it becomes a fight of power versus a fight of skill. My first defense is of course, to walk away. My second is striking. I know that much of my evasive work is at angles, a lot of sidestepping, and evasive manuevers very likened to Dragon styles. Now, what can someone do to get me on the ground? Sweeps wont work, tackles are too slow, in fact, getting me on the ground is near impossible. If he tries a tackle, I will show him the other use for knees. Or a good strike to the neck. Assuming he does get me to the ground, he may overpower me but I will still be doing striking. Grappling is for sports. Striking is for combat.

[Gumbi]

First off, let me tip my hat to Seven Star for a beautifully written post- its so difficult to visit a MA site and have to explain that very thing to every ignorant person there.

 

 

just a few questions....

 

and mainly for the guys who train in or have trained in a 'grappling' style.

 

what was the teaching of strikes like in that training.

 

i mean, what/how did you deal with that aspect?

 

Generally, when dealing with strikes we work against basic and common attacks- haymakers, headbutts, and sucker punches. The last two are simply defended by not letting the guy get too close as an argument escalates. When punches are thrown, we're taught to cover up to protect our face and our jaw (to avoid being knocked out). Bear in mind you're stepping into the strike often to (to jam them) and start working your clinching skills.

 

 

also, did the training emphasise the grappling aspect (joint lock, control, breaks throws) above everything else?

 

or did it have strikes that would lead to grappling.

 

the training emphasizes control of your opponent and throwing him to the ground in basic defense scenarios. there are also ways to enter into the clinch (say, if the guy said one thing too many and you decided you werent going to wait for him to start the fight, so you'd do it yourself.) Generally its something simple like throwing your hands in their face as a distraction and then dropping for the takedown/clinch

 

 

 

let's take a basic scenario.

 

you are being attacked.

 

the aggressor if going to throw a basic straight punch.

 

how would you teach the beginner to deal with it?

 

receive/block/parry?

 

then go straight to a throw, lock, control etc etc?

 

or

 

did you also teach/show strikes where they possible, or was purely about grappling?

 

 

 

A basic straight punch- I'd probably use a double forearm block (like a boxing cover up) while attempting to rush the guy. This protects my jaw and face and allows me to close the distance. I dont think I want to "recieve" any punches to the face, and parrying is probably more practical for someone with good striking skills who wanted to strike back (i.e. parry to the side and counter the straight with a hook for instance). As far as teaching strikes where possible, yes they did, but its still mostly on the ground- striking from the feet isnt usually emphasized because its not something you (as a grappler) train in all the time. Why trade punches when your striking is lacking when you can clinch and use your superior skills from there/on the ground. The strikes shown from the ground though are usually from the bottom of the guard Anyone can see how easily you can hit someone from a mounted position, but there are nice ways to set up heel kicks when you're caught on the bottom in a fight- and believe me they're VERY powerfull and effective.

 

 

i.e in the above scenario, it would be:

 

receive, punch, grab arm, throw/control/whatever...?

 

Yeah, the idea for me is cover up while closing the distance. Taking the fight to the clinch and taking it to the ground.

 

 

 

during chi sau, if the opportunity came for me to apply a lock of some sort, i could go for it and then the game changes.

 

Most locks in BJJ are taught on the ground. There are a few applicable on the feet, but the reason why they'd rather execute them on the ground is because of the amount of control you exert over someone when you've got them pinned- its much more effective than attempting a lock on a standing opponent, since you have no where near as much control on him.

 

 

i mean, i wasn't ever taught strictly striking or strictly grappling.

 

of course there were times when specific techniques were shown so that i could understand how they work.

 

The strikes taught for BJJ were usually open hand slaps (which can disorient very well) elbows and knees (very brief and basic, its not like we're muay thai guys here). Elbows could be shown from in close, and knees were pointed out when in the clinch. The reason why we arent encouraged to punch with a fist on the feet is because the reality of it breaking when you hit something like a skull with such force. Also, we generally assume that our opponent is bigger and stronger than us, so we dont want to exchange strikes with them on the feet.

 

This does not mean Im anti striking- Im actually starting to learn some Muay Thai and boxing to compliment my ground game.

[Gumbi]

double post

Edited October 22, 2004 by Gumbi

[Drunken Monkey]

hey, someone actually tried to answer my very poorly written post.

 

still very sorry about that but it looks like you got the jist of it.

 

anyway.

 

so in BJJ you aren't really taught to react with a strike of your own but tend to go straight into using what-ever is coming to you with a form of control.

 

i.e there isn't really a striking 'game' as it were.

 

it kinda sounds like the way things are shown are quite similar.

 

only difference being whereas we would move to hit back, you move to grapple.

 

does that sound about right?

 

and er, just to clarify, when i say "receive" i mean that immediate moment/movement when your hands meet with your opponents.

 

in your example, you received with a double forearm.

[Gumbi]

"anyway.

 

so in BJJ you aren't really taught to react with a strike of your own but tend to go straight into using what-ever is coming to you with a form of control.

 

i.e there isn't really a striking 'game' as it were."

 

I wouldnt say that we "go straight into it" you simply gave an example of a straight punch, which I think is a harder to parry or dodge while still trying to close the distance. A hook or a kick I would try to close quickly to jam the attack. Thats pretty much it though, instead of striking back we're taught to "grapple" back and there really isnt a striking game involved.

[Treebranch]

Grappling covers alot of ground. There is stand up grappling and groundfighting and alot inbetween. You can take people down without going with them. You can also make them crash into parts of your body in grappling that will feel very much like strike.

 

I choose grappling.

[dratix]

striking! dont get me wrong, grappling is awesome, but when it comes down to it, striking will serve you best in a fight. if you're good enough.

[longarm25]

Vito,

 

To make it short, because of the uncertainties involved in a street fight. e.g. multiple assailants, hard or rough floor etc. I would pick a striking MA.

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

I have to agree the ground is the last place you want to be when dudes friends decide to jump in

[Marcus Aralius]

i hate rolling on the ground, the last fight i had i sort of lost because the guy "grppled" me down and put me in a lock where he repeatadly smashed me in the head and that sayed you can probably tell that i do a striking art. even though the guy got me on the ground im sure his back was just as scratched up as mine, btw my oponent does wrestling and he was doing it a bit longer than i have karate. I tell you this but, i was really drunk when i got into the fight and could hardly stand on my feet, if you ever seen someone throw a punch only to land on the ground... that was me, and before i hit the floor i messed him up prety good, and i had mates wating around the corner "who didnt know i was fighting as i went to defent my honour, by myself" who would have killed the guy shold they have known, therefor im sticking to my striking art, hope that helped

[Beiner]

and i had mates wating around the corner "who didnt know i was fighting as i went to defent my honour, by myself" who would have killed the guy shold they have known, therefor im sticking to my striking art, hope that helped

 

....So since you have friends your sticking to your striking art...?