no belt start

[tkdkarategirl]

We'll not mention the views/morals/standards held in the orient versus those held in the Americas...Eastern thoughts and ideals far surpass anything we could imagine here, and they are a much more respcectful and peaceful people than we.

 

I think a look at the history books will show Eastern civilizations to be just as nasty, brutal, and well.... human as Western.

 

touche....I do think they have a little less...um, human in their human, though...(just the respect they have for their heritage, etc.)...

 

That's what I get for not covering everything, huh?

[foreveryoung001]

touche....I do think they have a little less...um, human in their human, though...(just the respect they have for their heritage, etc.)...

 

I think "respect for their heritage" is a great way to put it. In America, it seems very PC to forget about the roots of our own country, and our history and heritage is much younger than most. Now, this could start a whole debate about our "roots" but I think I'll leave it at that.

[47MartialMan]

Hmm,

 

Instructing kids is certainly different from instructing adults who can recoginze when they are progressing. Kids NEED that visual confirmation that they're doing well...If you'd like to criticize, feel free...I don't have to answer to you (thank goodness, I'd probably never get anything right then!). I teach taekwondo because I love it and want to share it with everyone I can...not because I want to please people like you.

 

We'll not mention the views/morals/standards held in the orient versus those held in the Americas...Eastern thoughts and ideals far surpass anything we could imagine here, and they are a much more respcectful and peaceful people than we. Americans like to see progression, and see it quickly...otherwise they will quit. Orientals learn for the pure sake of learning and bettering themselves, even without a quick outcome (I certainly do wish I could have their patience)...(oh, and I'm talking about the 'old school' orientals, just for clarification).

 

Unfortunately I am not in the orient, I am in the Americas and if I intend to teach and be accepted here, I have to do some things the 'western' way rather than the 'eastern' way.

 

Hey, don't misconsture. Yes, it's motivational. I undersatnd the "belt color-motivation thing. But why go further into taping stripes? Shouldn't there be "enough colors" to do this? What will really bother me if people start charging a fee for this taping as well as belt tests (which when charged, is another motivation for the school-more money). Why charge for motivation?

[foreveryoung001]

What will really bother me if people start charging a fee for this taping as well as belt tests (which when charged, is another motivation for the school-more money). Why charge for motivation?

 

Couldn't agree more. My instructor only charged enough to cover the costs of the certificate and belt (when changing belts), and that is the same tradition I've carried on too. Testing fees have gotten really outrageous. I suppose I could see charging $0.03 for the stripes... hey, tape costs money!!!!

[47MartialMan]

47martialman...

 

what you're talking about (several stripes on gup ranks) is referred to as a "tip test" and can actually be very handy from a teacher's perspective.

 

Let's say you have... 75 orange belts. I know it's a lot, but I like big numbers.

 

All of them have to be responsilble for a certain amount of knowledge before green belt, correct? Are you going to remember what all 75 orange belts know and don't know? Not to mention the other ranks.

 

So what you might do is give them a stripe when you know they know their required techniques, another for their hyungs, another for one-steps. Etc. You may have a "test" one day in class in which you see who is at what level, and give out stripes accordingly.

 

NOW, you could also be evil and charge for these "tip tests" but I wouldn't personally. When I first heard about it, I think I rolled my eyes and made a gagging noise, but when you think about it from a business/organizational perspective, it's a pretty cool idea.

 

I am not saying that it isn't practical. Is it moral? Why keep adding on "motivational means"? I have taught kids. Heck, my wife was in a large professional daycare center (with a on-staff nurse and child psyhologist-it had about 300 kids, spanned four large buildings and a indoor swimming pool) for 20 years. I took some of "their" experiences and found them to work when training kids MA. I did not need those "motivational" tools. Does that make me the better instructor because I motivated my kids WITHOUT them? What had happened, one school "started" doing this to "intice" new customers, er students. Then another followed, then another, finally it is now to a point of using construction material. I can only wonder what next.

[47MartialMan]

Instructing kids is certainly different from instructing adults who can recoginze when they are progressing. Some adults need motivation as well. That is why the "Black Belt" is so "coveted". (At this point I imagine a choir of angels humming to a most "high")

 

Kids NEED that visual confirmation that they're doing well....

 

Not really, a good teacher can motivate and confirm in many other ways. But I guess that this won't have them "profit" as well.

 

If you'd like to criticize, feel free...I don't have to answer to you (thank goodness, I'd probably never get anything right then!).

 

Yes, I feel free to criticize. Ok, so the school is a business. No problem. But why keep "raking" in cash for work that the students already earned and paid for via tuition?

 

I teach taekwondo because I love it and want to share it with everyone I can...not because I want to please people like you. Good for you. You please me by teaching something. But, I am going to hash the other areas.

[tkdkarategirl]

Our karate 'school' is not a school, more of a club, and actually is serving it's purpose as a ministry in our church. We don't charge 'tuition' only charge for testing, and ask for a donation (we don't keep track of who gives what, it all goes in a jar as they enter the gym) for those who have it each class...

 

There is one school in our town (it's a TTJC school, for anyone interested) that does charge $20) for their stripes...As I think I mentioned before, they're also the school that has the 'Black Belt Program....' You pay so much money up front, and you're basically guaranteed a black belt in ONE year...garbage, huh? The man who 'runs' the school draws students in by advertising that he's a "former NFL football player..." It makes me sooo angry, so I do know where your frustrations are coming from, because I've been there, felt them (and it's awful to see someone like that succeed when you're charging $45 a month/student (just enough to cover the bills), and teaching for the ART of it instead of the SPORT of it and you're not able to draw students...here he is charging AT LEAST $115/month and he's getting new students left and right...I guess becuase his style is more "flashy..." anyway, that was a personal rant.)

 

I totally agree that this whole "business" of McDojos is stupid...we have people saying they have black belts who in no way really had to earn them...they just had to show up for class and learn their hyung.

 

You know, My husband took kung-fu from a man who built his own dojo on his property...he charged $1/class (to cover equipment) and I don't think he charged anything for "testing"...he didn't give out certificates, etc...and his class was FULL all the time...we're talking like, barely enough room to work out full...that's what I want someday...(we'll see!) Anyway...

[47MartialMan]

Our karate 'school' is not a school, more of a club, and actually is serving it's purpose as a ministry in our church. We don't charge 'tuition' only charge for testing, and ask for a donation (we don't keep track of who gives what, it all goes in a jar as they enter the gym) for those who have it each class...

 

There is one school in our town (it's a TTJC school, for anyone interested) that does charge $20) for their stripes...As I think I mentioned before, they're also the school that has the 'Black Belt Program....' You pay so much money up front, and you're basically guaranteed a black belt in ONE year...garbage, huh? The man who 'runs' the school draws students in by advertising that he's a "former NFL football player..." It makes me sooo angry, so I do know where your frustrations are coming from, because I've been there, felt them (and it's awful to see someone like that succeed when you're charging $45 a month/student (just enough to cover the bills), and teaching for the ART of it instead of the SPORT of it and you're not able to draw students...here he is charging AT LEAST $115/month and he's getting new students left and right...I guess becuase his style is more "flashy..." anyway, that was a personal rant.)

 

I totally agree that this whole "business" of McDojos is stupid...we have people saying they have black belts who in no way really had to earn them...they just had to show up for class and learn their hyung.

 

You know, My husband took kung-fu from a man who built his own dojo on his property...he charged $1/class (to cover equipment) and I don't think he charged anything for "testing"...he didn't give out certificates, etc...and his class was FULL all the time...we're talking like, barely enough room to work out full...that's what I want someday...(we'll see!) Anyway...

 

Nice story....very honorable

[JEM618]

I agree with the fact that 'no belt' or 'striping' belts is a powerful organizational tool in terms of managing classes of mixed ranks and ability. But, I don't believe it’s so good if it is used as a marketing or money making scheme.

 

I trained at a TKD dojo that had 10 tests before 1st degree black belt, all the colored belts and ‘stripe tests’ in between.

 

When teaching classes it took only a second to visually survey the class and determine how to divide the class for drills, sparring, etc.

 

But in the end, I thought, ‘Why?’ In reality, do you need to draw such fine lines between abilities with in ranks? It just seemed to be simply way to double test fee income.

 

The school I am at now follows a more traditional rank system, the concept for beginners runs parallel to that of the ‘no belt’ start. Since you need a belt to keep the top of your uniform closed, you get a belt the very first day, but it comes with out rank, or ‘kyu’.

 

So you start off with ‘no kyu’, then when you are ready, you test for 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, and finally 1st kyu, which is the equivalent to a brown belt.

 

An interesting point, there are only two colors for belts, white and black. So the guy with ‘no kyu’ and the guy with 1st kyu, or brown belt, both wear white belts.

 

(The only perceptible difference is the slight discoloration of the belt as it is worn over the course of three or four years, it gets a little darker from sweat and dirt, etc.)

 

Funny, the first day at the school, I walked into a class where two 1st kyu guys were getting ready for their black belt test. I watched in horror. 'These guys are awesome', I thought, 'and they are only white belts!'

 

Also, once you get your 1st dan, the belt remains the same. No stripes or marks to show 2nd, 3rd, 4th dan, etc.

 

(The only perceptible difference is the slight loss of color or wear on the best from wearing it and tying it over the course of your career, it gets worn around the belt knot, and the black starts to fade to gray.)

 

[krzychicano]

Take away the belts and dobaks! Practice Naked!