Are your kids in TaeKwonDo?

[Kicks]

TSDMGK_K40 wrote "No need to get defensive, "

 

No problem, I'm sorry if my post sounded 'defensive'. I enjoy having dialogs with folks on this forum. It's one of the better groups of people I've had to pleasure to communicate with via forum. In my explaination I was just trying to be more concise. As I explained in a previous post, I have gone through this discussion many times with other people. I get all kinds of emails from people who visit my website and challenge me and my son on our rankings. I get 'hate mail' to say it mildly. So yesterday I took my time-line off the website.

 

The school we attend exceeds Kukkiwon's time requirements for dan promotions. They just wave the age standard only for those they feel are worthy. This is the system we got involved in long ago; way before we knew that other styles and systems would have any objections to.

 

Added:

 

TSDMGK_K40 wrote "In my math, 1993 starting at white belt to 2003 (the link you posted) testing for 4th dan is 10 years, but obviously I missed something somewhere."

 

We started in Jan 1993 and made 4th in June 2004 (not 2003). That's a full 11.5 years.

Edited September 2, 2004 by Kicks

[TangSooGuy]

You are part of World Tang Soo Do, right? I don't think I've ever met a World TSD dan with 4 stripes on their dan belt. And I am from the northeast, so I see many dans/masters from other orgs.

 

I also understand fully what the red stripe in the center of the belt means, as the midnight blue belt that I wear has that little red stipe through the center.

It was a mistake in my opinion, and a temporary patch on a problem that will arise again when there are large numbers of 4th dans who cannot test for master rank.

 

I used to believe as you did, that it was an unfair requirement, until I actually went through the process. i actually had to move across the state to start a school because there were too many in the area I was in.

 

However, having been through the process, I see why it is the way it is. Master rank is reserved only for those who are willing to sacrifice and dedicate at least some portion of their lives to the art and to perpetuating the art through instruction.

 

It's not a perfect system, and it may be in need of revision, but I understand why it is the way it is, and I accept it.

 

I can't agree with you about the 'dedication and sacrifice' issue. I don't own a studio, or have 25 students, yet I feel that I am no less a 'master' of my style.

 

I've been in my system since 1981, I attend numerous association (https://www.TSDMGK.com) events each year, train with my instructor on a weekly basis, teach for him whenever needed, sit on dan test shim sa boards several times a year, ran a full time studio before I graduated college, attend our 5 day Kodanja shim sa each year, etc...

 

Just my opinion.

 

Yes, I am in WTSDA...and the 4 stripes thing is a recent thing that all new master's candidates must go through, and like I said, IMO, a mistake, but I still stand by my association on the whole nonetheless.

 

I'm not trying to invalidate anyone else's rank or status either, just illustrating that 4th Dan, and even 'master' mean different things in different systems.

 

Nor am I saying that any one way is better than another. In our association, you cannot reach master rank unless you are chiefly responsible for the development and instruction of a new batch of students. I'm not asking you to agree with it because I do understand where the system breaks down, nor am I trying to say that you are any less of a 'master' than I am, just that the requirements are different, and I am aware that 'different' /= 'better'... but what can I say, it works for us, and it does have its benefits.

 

In point of fact, from your post, you have been training 4 years longer than I have, and there's probably a lot I could learn from you. There are also a lot of 3rd Dans in our association that have been training longer than I have who I have tremendous respect for. Some would say it is wrong that I have passed them in rank, and they may have some good arguments to make that case.

 

However, the fact remains that in our system, technical skill and even amassing great amounts of knowledge isn't what gets you to master. Nor is teaching for someone else, as I did that for several years...you have to take charge of your own group of students, and be ultimately responsible for their development. You basically have to become a martial arts 'parent'.

 

 

 

Now this is way off-topic, and I'm probably typing myself in circles...let's just say I don't completely disagree with you and I don't refite your right to the master title, but I don't completely disagree with my association and its standards either. If you care to discuss the ay it works further, I'd be more than happy to, and you can send me a PM here at any time.

[TangSooGuy]

You are part of World Tang Soo Do, right? I don't think I've ever met a World TSD dan with 4 stripes on their dan belt. And I am from the northeast, so I see many dans/masters from other orgs.

 

I also understand fully what the red stripe in the center of the belt means, as the midnight blue belt that I wear has that little red stipe through the center.

It was a mistake in my opinion, and a temporary patch on a problem that will arise again when there are large numbers of 4th dans who cannot test for master rank.

 

I used to believe as you did, that it was an unfair requirement, until I actually went through the process. i actually had to move across the state to start a school because there were too many in the area I was in.

 

However, having been through the process, I see why it is the way it is. Master rank is reserved only for those who are willing to sacrifice and dedicate at least some portion of their lives to the art and to perpetuating the art through instruction.

 

It's not a perfect system, and it may be in need of revision, but I understand why it is the way it is, and I accept it.

 

I can't agree with you about the 'dedication and sacrifice' issue. I don't own a studio, or have 25 students, yet I feel that I am no less a 'master' of my style.

 

I've been in my system since 1981, I attend numerous association (https://www.TSDMGK.com) events each year, train with my instructor on a weekly basis, teach for him whenever needed, sit on dan test shim sa boards several times a year, ran a full time studio before I graduated college, attend our 5 day Kodanja shim sa each year, etc...

 

Just my opinion.

 

Yes, I am in WTSDA...and the 4 stripes thing is a recent thing that all new master's candidates must go through, and like I said, IMO, a mistake, but I still stand by my association on the whole nonetheless.

 

I'm not trying to invalidate anyone else's rank or status either, just illustrating that 4th Dan, and even 'master' mean different things in different systems.

 

Nor am I saying that any one way is better than another. In our association, you cannot reach master rank unless you are chiefly responsible for the development and instruction of a new batch of students. I'm not asking you to agree with it because I do understand where the system breaks down, nor am I trying to say that you are any less of a 'master' than I am, just that the requirements are different, and I am aware that 'different' /= 'better'... but what can I say, it works for us, and it does have its benefits.

 

In point of fact, from your post, you have been training 4 years longer than I have, and there's probably a lot I could learn from you. There are also a lot of 3rd Dans in our association that have been training longer than I have who I have tremendous respect for. Some would say it is wrong that I have passed them in rank, and they may have some good arguments to make that case.

 

However, the fact remains that in our system, technical skill and even amassing great amounts of knowledge isn't what gets you to master. Nor is teaching for someone else, as I did that for several years...you have to take charge of your own group of students, and be ultimately responsible for their development. You basically have to become a martial arts 'parent'.

 

 

 

Now this is way off-topic, and I'm probably typing myself in circles...let's just say I don't completely disagree with you and I don't refite your right to the master title, but I don't completely disagree with my association and its standards either. If you care to discuss the ay it works further, I'd be more than happy to, and you can send me a PM here at any time.

[TSDMGK_K40]

I'm not trying to invalidate anyone else's rank or status either, just illustrating that 4th Dan, and even 'master' mean different things in different systems.

 

Nor am I saying that any one way is better than another. In our association, you cannot reach master rank unless you are chiefly responsible for the development and instruction of a new batch of students. I'm not asking you to agree with it because I do understand where the system breaks down, nor am I trying to say that you are any less of a 'master' than I am, just that the requirements are different, and I am aware that 'different' /= 'better'... but what can I say, it works for us, and it does have its benefits.

 

I never felt like you were trying to diminish anything, my system is what I know best, so that is what I use as a point of reference.

In point of fact, from your post, you have been training 4 years longer than I have, and there's probably a lot I could learn from you. There are also a lot of 3rd Dans in our association that have been training longer than I have who I have tremendous respect for. Some would say it is wrong that I have passed them in rank, and they may have some good arguments to make that case.

 

However, the fact remains that in our system, technical skill and even amassing great amounts of knowledge isn't what gets you to master. Nor is teaching for someone else, as I did that for several years...you have to take charge of your own group of students, and be ultimately responsible for their development. You basically have to become a martial arts 'parent'.

 

Now this is way off-topic, and I'm probably typing myself in circles...let's just say I don't completely disagree with you and I don't refite your right to the master title, but I don't completely disagree with my association and its standards either. If you care to discuss the ay it works further, I'd be more than happy to, and you can send me a PM here at any time.

 

Well, I might have started 4 years earlier than you, but I didn't train at all during high school, and earned my cho dan in 1992, so you've probably been a dan longer than I have.

[Sphintai]

2 years and already at purple, sounds fishy. Sounds more like a giveaway belt system. Is it a large or smaller school?