Mu Ryuk Posted August 28, 2004 Posted August 28, 2004 Hey all, looking for some advice here. At the moment I am talking to my friend Jackie. She takes Tang Soo Do at my Dojang, and is a higher rank than me...but she, like (unfortunately) most of the kids at my Dojang, is not a serious Martial Artist. So she messages me asking for help, with a girl who wants to fight her. I tell her the secret to self defense: run away. She starts talking about how everyone will call her a loser. I keep telling her it doesn't matter what people call her, think of her, etc, it's not worth physical confrontation. Fighting should be avoided at all costs. No matter what I say, she just keeps saying "I'll have to fight, I can't just walk away, people will call me a wuss." I don't know what I should tell her. Advice or personal experiences anyone? Thanks, Tang Soo! Passion transcends pain.
bluetiger Posted August 28, 2004 Posted August 28, 2004 It's really hard to say with such limited information. Do these 2 people live close to one another? Attend the same MA school? Same high school (because that what it sounds like)? Can she avoid this person without it being obvious? Is the other person an accomplished fighter? Having been the big guy that all the punks with "little man's syndrome" decided to try their luck with, I have a little experience in this matter. If she "has to" fight, have Jackie make it on her terms. Advise her to pick the time and place and to be the aggressor. Not one of those "Meet me here at 1:00" deals. I mean that she needs to make up her mind and just do it. When she's ready, she needs to go up to whoever and just do it. No mouthing off or saying I'm going to kick your butt. Just kick her butt. 9 times out of 10 whoever gets the first good strike in wins the fight anyways. Keep in mind that it is always best to resolve matters peacefully. However, if that cannot happen, then Jackie needs to control the situation. Make the decision to fight, decide when it will happen, be the aggressor and strike first.
tkdcardshark Posted August 28, 2004 Posted August 28, 2004 I agree and disagree with blue tiger. First what I agree with, it’s very hard to give you advise when you haven’t given us very much information. Next, not to be rude blue tiger, but don’t ever go into a fight planning to fight (that makes a cool quote ^_^). The number one thing is there’s almost always at least one way out without having to fight or embarrass your self or lose "respect" or whatever. Over all, all you need to do is get her to realize that she doesn’t need to fight. If she goes to a Do Jang to learn from a master I'm sure the master tells her not to use her skills unless attacked, you just need to get her to remember that.
Master Jules Posted August 28, 2004 Posted August 28, 2004 If she is a black belt, she can be considered a weapon by the court system. If the other girl is the one who starts the fight with her, she can certainly claim self defense, provided she responds to the attack from the other girl with a "reasonable" amount of force. If she attacks first, if she has a Dan rank, it can be considered assault with a deadly weapon, which is a felony, and she could possibly face serious legal consequences. In any case....if the fight is inevitable or unavoidable.....let the other girl swing first......at least shell be covered legally, and if she wins....people cant say that she sucker punched the other girl.......just have her remember.....this is a STREET fight....NOT.....I repeat....NOT the dojo......meaning....it is gonna be FULL CONTACT, with no pads, no headgear, etc....there are NO rules, and no "time outs".......and EVERYTHING goes.......so.......just be prepared. Whatever the problem is.....hopefully it can be worked out without a fight, but........sometimes we dont get that lucky. I have been working bar and niteclub security for 20 years, so I have had more than my share of street fights.....hence.....the nickname "The Sandman" had been "bestowed" on me by my fellow bouncers. ~Master Jules ~Master Jules......aka "The Sandman""I may be a trained killer......but Im really a nice guy"
Rotten Head Fok Posted August 28, 2004 Posted August 28, 2004 Is the girl that wants to fight your friend a fellow student ? Aslo, if she (your friend) is not a serious martial artist, why does she go to training ? and a higher rank ? You must be stable and balanced in your foot work, if you have to use your martial knowledge in combat, your intent should be to win. If you do strike, you must release great power! The martial arts are easy to learn, but difficult to correct.
delta1 Posted August 28, 2004 Posted August 28, 2004 OoooK! First, the misconceptions, in reverse order. A martial artist is not considered a weapon in court. But, regardless whether she swings first or not, her level of experience as opposed to her opponents will be taken into account. Planing to fight and planing for a fight are two different things. If the fight is inevatable, planing for it is a good idea. bluetiger is closest to the truth here, but I wouldn't advise her to appear the aggressor. No matter what the past circumstances, looking the other girl up and attacking her makes your friend guilty of assault. And running away is not the answer. It will only encourage the other girl to get worse. My advice, run some scenario training with your friend. Do scenaros both where the other girl aproaches your friend, and where your friend aproaches the other girl. blue is right, it is better if your friend can pick the time nd place, where she has the initiative and some good witnesses. But that may not be how it happens. Practice things like talking the other girl down, run some conflict resolution skills. But also practice non threatening ready postures, and practice suddenly reacting from those postures. In the actual conrontation, make it appear your friend doesn't want to fight. Have her make statements like 'I don't want this, you don't really want to do this, we don't need to do this...'. She needs to say this whether she wants to or not. But, since there is a history of threats against he, your friend should also warn the other girl to stay back. If she gets close, then your friend would be justified in a preemptive strike. No warning, and make that first strike count! At the same time, your friend needs to stop making statements to people that she wants to fight this girl. She is also building a history, and it will be brought up in court. Another reason to pick the time and circumstances, if possible, and to have friends present- things get heated and it is easy to get carried away. No matter who ends up on top, you want people you trust there to break it up when things go too far. Obviously, if your friend is hurt and the other girl is continually pounding her, it would be good if you are there to pull the other girl off. If it is your friend that gets carried away, you still want to pull her off. Once she has clearly subdued the other girl, or the other backs away, it is over. If your friend continues, she is guilty of assault. If the other girl is incapacitated and she continues, it may be aggrivated assault. It used to be that when two women went at it, you pretty much had a 'cat fight'- a lot of scratching, pulling hair, rolling around and screaming. Not necesarily so any more. Your friend has to consider the girls experience, possibility of weapons, and that the other may have friends waiting in the wings. Still best not to fight, but if she has to she'd best be prepared and ready for the consequences, both physical and legal. One last thing- your friend should report this harrassment to some authority, school or police. Not because it will do any good as far as preventing a fight. It won't, and may even make it more probable. But when it occurs, she wants the authority to start the investigation with the mindset that your friend was trying to avoid it and the other girl has been the aggressor. Freedom isn't free!
Master Jules Posted August 28, 2004 Posted August 28, 2004 Please dont misquote me.....I didnt say a martial artist in general is considered a weapon by the court system......I specifically indicated a martial artist who possesses a DAN rank can be, and usually is considered to be a weapon by the court system......and the higher the DAN rank.....the more accountable they are for their actions, and the stiffer the charges they may face are.......Im in New York.....maybe its different where you are..... ~Master Jules ~Master Jules......aka "The Sandman""I may be a trained killer......but Im really a nice guy"
CanuckMA Posted August 28, 2004 Posted August 28, 2004 Remember that if she set a date, then it's mutually agreed combat, and both can be charged with assault.
bluetiger Posted August 28, 2004 Posted August 28, 2004 Just to clarify my statements: 1. It is better to avoid fighting if at all possible. From the original post it sounded like this one's going to happen. 2. Being the aggressor is not always obvious. I meant more like have that state of mind. If she goes in scared and not wanting to fight, she'll fight that way---and lose. The only thing you can do is prepare in case it does happen. A lot of good advice in this thread.
47MartialMan Posted August 28, 2004 Posted August 28, 2004 I have had a student but on the reversal. He was getting challenged by a Black Belter from another MA school. My student was a mere Orange Belter. Avoidance is the best way although it could esculate the tension further. The Black Belter has one thing to prove but a bigger thing to lose other than a fight. delta1 has fine points that I agree with.
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