Chinese five elements philosphy

[Rotten Head Fok]

Hi all, as I train, practice, and study TCC (Yang Style) I as many of you am always learning or trying. I came across something, Song Yuan-Qiao (a tai chi student of Zhang San-Feng) wrote a famous tai chi essay, called "Song's Tai Chi Kung." According to Song Yuan-Qiao the footwork was designed around the Chinese five elements philosophy-metal,wood,soil,water,and fire. So, now I research and KF has helped me in other quests. My question is to those who can, what is your knowledge of this philosophy in respect of footwork?

[Shorin Ryuu]

My knowledge of that only extends to pressure point theory...what exactly do you mean footwork? Obviously I don't know what you are looking for...

[Rotten Head Fok]

Thank you Shorin Ryuu, I am learning many things here at Karate Forums and expressing my thoughts are one of them. I'm trying to better understand TCC. I'm looking now for the Chinese five element philosophy to read and draw from it to help my TCC. I've posted here to see if any of it's members allready have an understanding and can help me with mine. As with most styles there are basic rules, laws, important points to learning it. TCC footwork might be stepping into a ward-off position, or shifting weight backwards to play the fiddle. While I have memorized these movements and study it's laws, I would think understanding the philosophy would help. I'm guessing that I will end somewhere around Feng Shui.

[AngelaG]

AFAIK there is not much to tie in footwork to 5 element theory... but there are one or two things. Firstly there is a Kidney point (water) on the ball of your foot, this if stimulated can build up your energy and increase Ki. I have experimented with the Fire Walk and applying techniques afterwards and it does seem to have a big impact. Therefore to increase your energy, and therefore power try rubbing the ball off your foot along the floor (or wearing high heels when you fight )

 

Secondly there is a pressure point on the top of the foot (I think it's Gallbladder 41 - wood) which you could stand on (on your opponents foot) and then try and hit into a Water point or Earth point for good effect.

[Sasori_Te]

Have you seen a five element diagram? Notice that the destructive cycle follows in a pattern of triangles. In turn the the constructive cycle is circular. These could be the patterns that you need to study. Most movement patterns in martial arts are either circualr or angular as such. Could this be the view point that you are looking for?

[AngelaG]

If you move in a circular fashion (such as the C shaped step in Shotokan) you can step inside the opponents feet. This means you can hit the sensitive areas inside their ankles or bump them with your knee inside their thigh. There are loads of PPs inside the legs so any shot would tend to be good.

 

Even if you fail to hit any PPs the bump will off-balance them and help you to gain the advantage.... as will standing on their foot.

[Shorin Ryuu]

I am currently in the middle of reading Cheng Tzu's Thirteen Treatises on T'ai Chi Ch'uan by Cheng Man Ch'ing. One of his treatises is on the cycles of destruction and creation. While I had seen the pressure point cycle of destruction and creation, I had never seen it specifically in movement before.

 

Earlier in the treatise he writes that step forward, step back, look left, look right and central equilibrium refer to metal, wood, fire, water and earth, respectively.

 

Later, he states that stepping forward is a fierce action (fire), but requires stability (earth), so that is fire creating earth. Looking left has the nature of hardness (metal) and refers to stepping to the left while the right fist follows with stability (earth), so that is earth creating metal. And so on...

 

Yet this is in contrast (which movement refers to which elemenet) to what he said earlier in the treatise. Is this just an error in the translation? Or was what he saying later merely an example? I was wondering if anyone who was knowledgeable about this could comment either way.

[delta1]

Have you seen a five element diagram? Notice that the destructive cycle follows in a pattern of triangles. In turn the the constructive cycle is circular. These could be the patterns that you need to study. Most movement patterns in martial arts are either circualr or angular as such. Could this be the view point that you are looking for?

 

Beat me to it! Laid out on the ground, all your basic foot maneuvers can be extrapolated from it. Makes a good subject for meditation. After you play with that for a while, start to tip the plane up and rotate it through variouse positions and orientations. Superimpose smaller parts of the diagram onto the larger diagram. You'll find not only foot maneuvers, but kicks, strikes, throws, ... in fact, all motion is represented in this diagram. Good call, ST!

[delta1]

Earlier in the treatise he writes that step forward, step back, look left, look right and central equilibrium refer to metal, wood, fire, water and earth, respectively.

 

Later, he states that stepping forward is a fierce action (fire), but requires stability (earth), so that is fire creating earth. Looking left has the nature of hardness (metal) and refers to stepping to the left while the right fist follows with stability (earth), so that is earth creating metal. And so on...

 

SR, I don't really see a contradiction here. It follows the Chinese thougjt that all things are in ballance, all tend toward harmony, and all are inter-related. I've read something similar somewhere, but don't really remember. I need to look this up since it adds a whole different dimension of interpretation to this diagram and the understanding of motion.

[Sasori_Te]

Like I said earlier, if you laid out the star pattern formed by the five elements on the ground and apply the interactions of the elements to your movements you get what you are talking about. First you have to understand very well the interaction of the five elements.