Just a fun hypothetical question

[Drunken Monkey]

.....that's one of the problems i think.

 

a lot of people think that there is a stage when there is no more to learn; that there is a final destination.

 

and that is where the belts come in.

 

they don't help the situation.

 

in fact, i think they kinda hinder real development.

 

people get too hung up on the titles and forget about simply being able to 'do'.

 

on the flip side,

 

the belts do serve a purpose

 

and that is to let the instructor know what 'level' you are at.

 

that is what i think the belts are for.

 

they are not for you as a reward or reference of some sort.

 

they are to help the instructor know how/what/when he should be teaching you.

[torris]

I may be wrong, but the 5th DAN or 6th DAN and higher black are mostly honorary, aren't they. Wouldn't it be that someone who has studied and obtained this level in the arts would in fact have mastered that style.

 

I may be wrong, but at that level, I consider them having mastered that style they have studied.

[torris]

...the belts do serve a purpose

 

and that is to let the instructor know what 'level' you are at.

 

that is what i think the belts are for.

 

they are not for you as a reward or reference of some sort.

 

they are to help the instructor know how/what/when he should be teaching you.

 

That makes complete sense.

[Drunken Monkey]

...the point is, i think 'master' does not exist.

 

there are people who can tech you and people who can't.

 

there are people who you can learn from and people who you can't.

 

that is it.

 

the title isn't used in any culture when talking about martial arts except in ENGLISH where it is a bad translation of

 

'teacher'

 

'martial father'

 

'head of school'

 

'door keeper'

 

'keeper of the dojo'

 

'keeper of the quan'

 

and too many other titles.

 

NONE of which means master.

 

the 5th dans and above

 

well, you can call them master

 

(which you've already shown to be your opinion that they are)

 

but i think the good ol' regular title of 'teacher' is still more fitting.

 

i know i'm probably picking at your choice of words and not paying attention to your intention

 

but

 

i hope you understand what i'm trying to get at.

 

master means nothing.

 

in chinese it only means 'guy in charge of....'

 

i don't think peole should be focusing on how good they might get or how good they want to get and worry about how good (or not) they are now.

 

too many people think about how in x amount of years time they will be this or that and don't think today or tomorrow which is what matter's most.

 

which is again part of where belts don't help.

 

they remove the focus from the individual onto an inanimate object that has nothing to do with actual skill.

[sAtelitte]

Basicly i have no problem with the belt system even though there's not supposed to be one in shaolin kung fu.

 

I chose the third option because i have no idea how many belts there are in our system (as far as i know its: no belt => white belt => yellow belt =>orange belt => ???? => black belt) There is only one orange belt training, couple of yellow's and then about 10 white's and 10 with no belt. No-one even thinks about getting a black belt after seeing how good the yellows and the orange are, i would be happy if i ever get to yellow so there's no real purpose of a bb cause it's as good as unreachable.

 

 

too many people think about how in x amount of years time they will be this or that and don't think today or tomorrow which is what matter's most.

 

That's true but i think most of those people need to set a goal for them or they would simply give up.

[Kamiya]

I agree with others who have said the belt system is a good thing, as long as you are made to earn your belt. I think belt testings should be very strictly enforced.

 

If nothing else, I think it's important for the students in the dojo to be able to discern among their peers who is more advanced in the art. That way they can show proper respect to someone more skilled.

[karatekid1975]

I agree. I'd keep it. But like kamiya said, I'd strictly enforce the ranks. I'd also drop a few ranks. 4 or 5 is plenty.

[Red J]

My first style had white, green, brown and black. Each colored level had one stripe.

 

My current system has white, yellow, orange, purple, blue, green, brown, and black. There are stripes at blue, green and brown.

 

I think that 4-6 colored levels is ideal.

 

One mcdojo that I visited had 22 belts for their kids program. I thought that was extreme, but I guess that they must of tested every other week as there were several 12 year black belts (don't get me going on this). When the instructor talked to me he imediately went into his "pitch". I felt like he was trying to sell me an extended warranty for a car. He wouldn't let up and I finally just walked out.

[Drunken Monkey]

on a not too un-related topic.

 

there is a wing chun association out there that has a habit of introducing a new 'grade' (no belts) every few years.

 

it works out that to get to an instructor level would take, if you're lucky, 20 odd years.

 

then tehre are levels beyond instructor.

 

now i should say this is partly from word of mouth

 

but i'm looking into it....

 

belt-no belt.

 

it doesn't matter.

 

it's a question of power.

 

they have the power to do something

 

(give a belt, grade, badge, what-ever).

 

what you have to try and do is limit the way in which they can abuse that,

 

which, at the end of the day, is down to how honest they are.

[Karategurl]

I like the belt system we have, but it feels like it takes forever to get from one rank to another. The teaching ranks always confuses me. My dojo goes by> white,purple,yellow,orange,blue,green,brown, and finally black.< I just wish we could cut it down just a tad.