Wing Chun

[granmasterchen]

Hello all!

 

I am looking for information on wing chun....real information, that is why i am asking you instead of searching the web. I am curious for those that have studied the art, I would like to know everything you can tell me about it. This is one of the few styles that I have never been exposed to.

 

What type of forms....even give me descriptions of the forms

 

what types of strikes, hard or soft style, weapons, breaking, throws, joint locks, pressure points, grappling , give me as much info as you can please.

 

thank you in advance

[Drunken Monkey]

.......this isn't going to be easy.......

 

more than anything, wing chun has to be felt to be really understood.

 

TRAINING IN TECHNIQUES 1: THE FORMS

 

i guess the best place to start is by describing the purpose of the forms.

 

each of the three hand forms represents a stage in training.

 

the things featured in the forms are not only done as they are in the form,

 

nor are they taught exclusively in the forms.

 

if you need to turn make something work, i will tell you to turn.

 

BUT

 

technically, the turn isn't shown until the second form.

 

the forms are just a reference point;

 

something that has been collected, that contains the core movements

 

so that you can practice them in an orderly fashion.

 

(i'm gonna give direct transaltions of the names of the forms as i can't be bothered with the romanisations....)

 

"LITTLE IDEA in your HEAD"

 

the first is your catalogue of hand positions/techniques/movements.

 

everything is in this form (except about 5 'moves')

 

you only 'use' one hand at a time in the form.

 

there is no foot movement in the form.

 

(footwork is shown 'separately'........ almost)

 

as you are learning/training in this form, you should be shown how to take it apart and apply it in a live scenario.

 

as such, there are no fixed techniques or sets of applications of techniques.

 

what you use depends on what you are good at and what is happening.

 

'sparring' at this point would be no more than drills of which there are many.......

 

we like to let the students think of drills and then they'd run them by us.

 

we would then give our opinions and offer an alternative if neccessary.

 

the nature of these drills is to let the student get used to be able to

 

i) recognise what a movement can do

 

ii) decrease the amount of time spent thinking in a 'live' situation

 

iii) let the student get used to using what are quite 'un-natural' hand/arm positions.

 

iv) get used to someone coming in with a 'hard' punch.

 

as you can imagine, this kind of drilling easily leads to almost 'free' fighting as they test different possibilities.

 

how hard you go during these drills depends on how comfortable you are

 

and what you are training

 

(i.e training position is different to training footwork, even though you might use the exact same steps+hand techniques)

 

as i said before, the first form has no foot work in it.

 

as such, during the first stage of drills/sparring,

 

the student will come across some problems that the first form does not deal with (as it it shows 'perfect' positions).

 

this is where the second form comes in.

 

SINKING the BRIDGE

 

this is all about

 

i) bridging

 

ii) closing

 

iii) use of turn

 

iv) use of step

 

basically, the second form answers questions that the first form doesn't deal with.

 

for a start, this form uses both hands at the same time,

 

as well as using stepping and turning in conjunction with technique.

 

(i should point out that during the course of the rest of the training, stepping, turning etc etc would already have been shown.

 

the drills+sparring wouldn't work otherwise)

 

because it features the step, kicks are also shown in the form.

 

not much else to say cos it basically dissected as you do with the first

 

and the individual parts used as neccessary.

 

once again, now that turning and stepping is introduced, even more questions arise.

 

enter the third form

 

DARTING FINGERS.

 

this deals with what to do when things go wrong.

 

basically, if you step, you may sometimes overstep or your opponent closes.

 

the same is if you turn;

 

you might turn too much or your oponent might 'pull' your turn.

 

this form features two extra 'concepts'/movements

 

this form features the elbow techniques.

 

also, the 'flaws' in the first two forms are covered here

 

(e.g correct gan sau)

 

this form shows the ways you can recover your position should anything like that happens.

 

also, the basic 'rules' as shown in the first two forms are now 'broken',

 

as it assumes you are now familiar with what they are and why they are.

 

this breaking of 'rules' plays a part in tactical-play as well as freeing you even further, allowing you to be more open in your techniques.

 

again, the movements in this form are to be take apart and used as necessary.

 

to explain this better i shall have to go into the principles and ideals of wing chun.

 

but before i go into that a few extra bits of info should be given.

 

the forms are generally unimportant.

 

there is in fact a form of wing chun that is a collection of loose techniques.

 

as i said before,

 

the purpose of the forms is to give you a reference of techniques/movements

 

as well as give an idication of what stage you are in your training.

 

in this way, you are actually shown all of the movements that feature in the form before you are actually shown the form.

 

i.e before you are shown the second form, you should already be able to turn and step

 

and before you are shown the third form, you should already know when to use your elbow.

 

the emphasis in training is crossing hands.

 

drills, chi sau and sparring is the main focus in class.

 

forms are left for you to do at home.

 

the basic punch is never neglected and will be the most practiced thing no matter what level you are at.

 

what is encouraged is for you to find your own answers.

 

after all, the movements are all there in the first form.

 

it is up to you to find it.

 

if you really can't see a way out, someone be it another student or the sifu should be able to help.

 

think of the training hall to be a giant test bed where lots of people get together to see if things (techniques) work.

[Karateka_latino]

This is a good website about wing chun.

 

http://www.wingchuninteractive.com you can see the techniques in motion.

[Drunken Monkey]

......y'know.

 

i'm not sure how i feel about that site....

 

everything seems a bit 'simplified'.

 

i'm not a big fan of the animations;

 

they're missing a lot

 

and i mean A LOT.

 

and the videos

 

well, videos never tend to show what wing chun is.

 

anyway.

 

i'm sorry if i was a bit long winded.

 

wasn't sure what you were really asking.

 

i mean, you did want someone to explain how things are, right?

 

there are still more 'chapters' if you want,

 

that deal with:

 

principles and ideals

 

'loose' techniques

 

use of the forms

 

training loose techniques

 

weapons and their forms

 

and maybe a few things that i can;t think of right now....

 

but i'm not really sure if i need to go that far or if anything beyond talking about principles is really necessary.

 

i should point out that i am not keen on discussing actual applications of techniques....

 

as such i will tell you how we do things and why but i am reluctant to go into to much detail about what you would do.

 

to give a fixed answer is to fix the technique when in reality it is a living thing that is open to change.

[granmasterchen]

great response, thanks a lot that was very helpful!!!

 

feel free to fill my head with more knowledge of the art. I will never get bored of hearing new info about a martial art.

[battousai16]

^agreed^. i've been looking for a new school, since mine has just become way to expensive, and i heard about a wing chun place near me. i've been thinking about stopping in... i hear its biggest disadvantage is that it's really repetitive and a pain to learn?

[Drunken Monkey]

it's not really a pain to learn.

 

it's just very easy to reach a plateau cos of how little there is to actually 'learn'.

 

a lot of the time is spent 'practicing' and unless you have people who are just as enthusiastic as you are (or even more so) to train with,

 

things can get very dull very quickly.

 

yep.

 

repetitive is the word.

 

because the system itself contains very few moves (even less that you use on a regular basis) everything is repeated and repeated, over and over....

 

you would remember me saying how the punch is practiced and trained everyday at every class.

 

after this, the basic pak sau+punch (and its variations) are the next most practiced things.

 

these two things can easily take up an hour or two.

 

then bam! class over

 

and all you would've done would be punches and one 'block'....

 

it's a pain to learn because it's quite hard to show you exactly what/how you should be doing things

 

(due to the nature of body variations, different levels of strength, situation etc etc).

 

what happens is that more often than not, you are told a general idea of what is you should be doing and then you have to find out for yourself what to do.

 

it can feel like you aren't actually being taught.

 

in that way, you are in charge of how well you do and how far you go.

 

in a way it's a good thing

 

cos it weeds out the '5 minute' students....

 

also, sometimes it can be hard to believe that it can actually work.

 

effective wing chun really does mean doing harm.

 

there is no half way.

 

hit with all or don't hit at all.

 

and that's where a problem arises.

 

wing chun is about hurting and causing damage.

 

things that you can't do in training.

 

(and even on a dummy, it isn't quite right...)

 

also, i think too much emphasis is put on chi sau as test of fighting ability.

 

whilst it is a good judge of your wing chun, it might not be a suitable judge of fighting

 

as once again, you don't actually complete the hits.

 

how do you know it works if you never really test it?

 

again, i can't really explain without being there in person.

 

if you do pop in and give it a go, you'll see what i mean.

 

hmm, do we have another convert?

 

hehe...

 

one day, you shall all see the light....

[WC-Strayder]

I have 2 years of Wing Chun training now and are half way in the second form, just about to upgrade to yellow sash one of this days. (I know, slow, but we had some problem with my sifu's illness)

 

For å little while a go I sparred with one of the black belts in my club. With wresling glows and groin/teeth protection we lined up and circled and I was thinking; better jump than crawl to it so I attaked him with a left jab and followed it up by a right punch. He was offcorse not there where my fists landed, but stepped quick aside while he controlled my hands and kicked me on the side of my knee with a push kick that made me knel to the ground and before I could even could think of what next he hit me in the back of my head from behind, not hard, just enough to show me that he with eaze could give me my a** on a plate, still holding me on the ground standing on my leg.

 

I have tree years of boxing behind me for a couple of years back, so I thougt I'll give that a try, after all I trained that longer than Wing Chun and moore fun for the black belt to try on a boxer, but I had not even the slightest chanse to hit him, let alone getting close enough to hit him! Dam(n), he was good! He worked with both hands and feets at the same time and sweept me, hit me and just toyed me around until I gave up and he was not even sweat when we stopped. Fun to se that wing chun works so well against a boxer, no matter how I charged him he just waved me off and played with me. Jepp, it was a boost for me to train harder.

 

In Wing Chun, as I understand it, is working by principles, not "IF he does that, you do this" and so on. You have a set of tools, really good tools, handed to you, but it is up to you how you use them.

 

Many times during training I have said; Why haven't I thougt of this before?, coz the technices are soo easy and simple. Like if anyone tries to kick you with a round house kick, in stead of moving away you rush in kicking his knee or his balls while you punching his face. In Wing Chun you fight standing on your foes shoes, never giving him space or letting him move with trapping his arms while you are free to punch and kick. Very effective!.

 

Like DM said, after you had learned the forms and practice them for a while the only place you do them is at home or where ever you might be. They are just tools, not a way too fight or too compete with.

 

I'm building myself a dummy right now for the same purpose, to train at home. It is practical, good looking and will fit very nice in my training room next to my sand filled punching bag and other stuff my girlfrend and I work out with. Ohh, and one last thing Wing Chun gave me that I can't promize anyone else, it gave me my girlfrend, whom also trains Wing Chun! Life IS fun with kung fu, I tell you!!

 

So you see granmasterchen, Wing Chun has a LOT to offer...

 

Train hard, fight eazy!

[Drunken Monkey]

push kick that made me kneel to the ground

 

shhhhh....

 

you're not supposed to tell people what the kicks are for in wing chun.......

 

ahem!

 

anyway.

 

i'm currently trying to write up a list and explanations of the priciples and sayings

 

and well, it's not easy.

 

i never realised there were so many....

 

a lot of them are always said in passing and only when actually writing them down have i noticed how many there are.

 

i mean,

 

five major sayings (fist sayings)

 

five on energy

 

lots of little ones about general mindset

 

general fighting principles

 

lots....

 

then comes trying to describe what they mean

 

and

 

in some cases, trying to better translate from chinese.

 

this might take some time.

 

it might be better if you just ask a few questions about things you might have read/heard elsewhere.

 

i'll post my part two when i'm done.

[battousai16]

i'm looking forward to it i think i'm gonna' check out the local wing chun place on saturday. we'll see how that goes.