Karate and Kung Fu

[striking_cobra]

i don't know where you heard that but if you've got some sources to back that up i'd like to hear them.

[senna_trem]

We have some more Kung Fu based kata and you can really notice the difference in karate, it is far more fluid. This is just my opinion now, but it also seems much quicker and uses different hand positions to strike. Not just lots of basic punches.

[KF Dude]

Low Horse Stance in Karate??? And you take Hung Gar!!! C'mon dude, we Southern stylists have like some of the lowest stanes in the world. . . . . . .

 

--> LOL I know all about low stances.

 

I was at a friends Karate tourney - cool stuff. Didn't know there was so many different styles of Karate. Kama weapon form was great to watch.

 

Back to stances, some of the horse stance was too low - the butt was sticking out instead of tucked in & was held below the knee level. Also the feet were pointing outward not straight ahead. Having the feet point straight does take some time to get right. I'm almost there, forcing it too quickly stresses the knee.

[Why_Worry]

Some of my style of karate that i learn has a few kung fu techniques in it as my senseis' teacher learned from a very good kung fu teacher who knew a little karate as well as from another karate teacher. Also back when karate was being introduced to okinawa it was coming from china which also had some kung fu aspects in it.

[y2_sub]

karate has plenty of hand techniques - ox-jaw, palm, knuckle, crane beak, etc. at least in okinawan variants. Japanese exponents do tend to use only the palm and fist.

And shoto

[Infrazael]

Haha I was being sarcastic regarding the ultra-low stances of Southern CMA.

Seriously, that is only for training in the beginning. Even in the form WHY the hell would you go that low is beyond me. . . . absolutely useless.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Man, this topic is still going. That's okay because it is a rather common one.

I think the gut reaction of all us Okinawan karateka is the accusation that "karate is simplified kung fu". As a critically-minded person, I have to overcome this gut reaction and say "Yes, karate has lost some things in its transmission from China." I think there has always been the utmost respect for Chinese arts on Okinawa.

However, I think the disconnect comes from the fact that it was not a matter of them learning or studying only what they brought back from China and nothing else. If that were the case, then the accusation would be right. A lot of them synthesized what they learned with what they already knew and even innovated concepts on their own.

I think more of the differences between Chinese and Okinawan arts becomes apparent when you contrast the Internal styles with karate. But many of those same differences exist between Internal styles and External styles. However, the distinction between internal and external isn't always as clear either.

I've said this before, but most of the criticisms of karate from Chinese martial artists often apply only to Japanese karate, which just takes another approach to fighting than their Okinawan counterparts.

To sum it all up, the Okinawans didn't learn everything the Chinese could have taught them. But they did learn a lot and they did innovate on their own. Furthermore, many of the differences often cited tend to be more applicable to Japanese karate than Okinawan karate. Any thoughts or questions on this argument?

[Shito-Ryu guy]

Overall I believe karate and kung fu to be the same. A human has only two arms, legs, etc. and you can only do so much with them. As far as different styles of karate and kung fu, for every style of kung fu you can probably find a similar style of karate. In Japan, my understanding is that there are hudreds of family styles that to this day are not taught publicly, as well as kung fu styles that are not taught publicly. The four major style of karate, once the basics are mastered, are very fluid, similar to the kung fu styles. One has to learn the practical applications of the kata from a teacher who knows them. If you were to apply the actual techniques(some of which are hidden techniques) the movements would resemble kung fu. The linear straight ahead kicking punching, etc. that you see at tournaments and in the training halls are the basic levels of karate. If you examine the higher level katas they are fluid, use circular motion, specialized breathing techniques to assist in ki(chi) developement(Similar to the internal styles of Kung Fu), etc. Most of the rigid and low stances in Japanese karate seem to have been developed to "Japanise" Okinowan Karate and to develope leg strength. If you examine Kendo, their stances are very high and fluid. The katas of okinowan Karate were altered by the Okinowans and Japanese, to one, make a distinction between Okinawa and Japan, and two, to be able to teach large numbers of people on the training floor. To see an example of the fluidity of karate, read Funakoshi's book "Karate-Do My Way Of Life"

(I think that is the correct title). He describes walking along a dark road

when a man comes running at him. He intentionally kicks the man in the thigh, causing him to fall into a ditch with a severely bruised thigh. Try doing that to some one running at you full speed without losing balance and with enough power to knock them down. You have to be very fluid and precise in your kicking. Funakoshi was attacked(when he was in his seventies) by a young hoodlum. He sidestepped the attack and grabbed the man by his testicles and held him until the police came. That is the essence of Karate and Kung fu summed up!

[shogeri]

There are linear styles in both, and circular styles in both. There are those that do joint/locks in both. Both have styles which focus on in-fighting, or just high kicks or low kicks. The list goes on and on.

If you created your own style, what would it be?

More than likely it will be based upon your physical strengths and weaknesses, along with whatever accumulated skills and knowledge you have at the time.

It will contain your preferences, and your thoughts about what it takes to win, demonstrate, and express the martial arts within you. It is an cumulative summary of all things that are you. Your social status, your ethnic culture, your economic status, your view on death, war, health, and on life.

It would represent your attention to detail or lack thereof.

It is many things, but it is the person or collection of people who created such style in the first place.

It is even all those who have come before you, doing just that: Creating something that works, not just for them, but possibly ~ for all people.

A true style fits the person, and it should always be that way.

Though it goes deeper, the abbove represents what is typically found at the core of any martial art, both kung fu and karate.

my thoughts for moment

[KarateKid6781]

i personally think kung fu is good for fighting against more than one opponent at a time