Who influenced who, for whoever cares

[Akima]

Ok, taken.

 

As best as I can tell, Asian Martial as they are practiced today flow from China to Okinawa. The Japanese picked up Karate During thier Occupation and eventual annexation of Okinawa. Karate was then introduced to the Koreans and transformed there.

[DLopez]

Fictionalized history of taekwondo as being 2000 years old.

 

I don't claim to know anything about TKD's history, but I would also submit that TKD is not wholly representative of traditional Korean martial arts. Therefore, using TKD as evidence that all Korean martial arts are all derived from Japan is flawed from the beginning.

I thought the Kuk Sul Won founder studied under Yong Shul Choi in Korea? Please let me know about this.

 

I don't know if that's true or not, but Choi's name is not specifically mentioned as one of the biggest influences in In Hyuk Suh's studies on the World Kuk Sool Won Association website's "history" synopsis.

 

I have also heard the story that he studied with Choi, not under him. I don't know for sure, and I may be thinking of a different Choi.

 

The World Kuk Sool Won Association website describes In Hyuk Suh's journey to learn all he could about the ancient Korean martial arts - those that existed before the Japanese occupation (Royal Court, Buddist, and Tribal martial arts), studying under many masters that continued to teach the ancient Korean martial arts in secrecy. These masters received letters of recommendation from Suh's grandfather, who was a Royal Court martial art master himself to allow In Hyuk Suh to study under them.

 

Kuk Sool Won

 

(click on the history link, then the "ancient" and "modern" buttons for a summary of KSW's roots and foundation)

 

It's interesting reading, and takes great care to illustrate that Kuk Sool Won is a system of traditional Korean martial arts, not Chinese, Japanese, or Okinawan.

 

I would find it hard to believe that KSW is the only representative of traditional Korean martial arts.

[DLopez]

Here is another link that explains in more detail, KSW's links to the ancient traditional Korean martial arts.

 

KUK SOOL WON: A Brief History

 

This particular paragraph relates quite nicely to our discussion.

It is also interesting to record that different techniques or aspects of the Korean martial arts developed in, or were characteristic of, certain areas of Korea. For example, BAK SOOL, Head Butting Techniques, were a prominent feature of KOGURYO; SOO GI, Hand Striking Techniques, were favored by SILLA; and JOK SOOL, Kick Striking Techniques, were widely used in PAEKCHE. (3)

 

Most contemporary systems of Korean marital arts derive their techniques from one or more of these ancient traditions or have amalgamated with, or have been influenced by, either Chinese or Japanese martial arts. However, the art of KUK SOOL is a systematic study, compilation, integration and further development of all three indigenous martial art systems of Korea.

[taichi4eva]

So, I'm understanding that by saying the old TKD masters were practicioners of the Pyong Ahn forms, this means that they practiced just Japanese forms in general like No Hai (rohai), Ship Soo (jitte), etc.

 

I read on the hanmudo.com website that Hee Sun Kim learned Kong Soo Do, more specifically the Pyong Ahn forms, basic forms (i think like Kicho), and three step sparring.

 

Any thoughts?

[rmclain]

Those are actually Okinawan forms that came through Japan to Korea.

 

4 of the 5 schools of TKD that were established following WWII practiced those forms including:

 

1. Chang Moo Kwan

 

2. Ji Do Kwan

 

3. Song Moo Kwan

 

4. Chung Do Kwan

 

I don't know about 5. Moo Do Kwan.

 

Also, Chang Moo Kwan taught Chuan-fa forms in addition to the Okinawan karate forms.

 

R. McLain

[Akima]

MDK/ TSD still do the pyogn forms and the advanced forms mentioned.

[Akima]

I took some time to look up KSW.

 

So far all I can find it as a fact is it was formed in 1958. I find no conclusiove evidence that they style is any older.

 

Learning from "some secret" monk is not evidence. Particularly when we're discussing a time when the Korean people were trying to rid the contry of all things japanese.

 

Is it unique for korean styles, Yes I think so. But I still think it was under tha same influences as the rest.

[DLopez]

Is it unique for korean styles, Yes I think so. But I still think it was under tha same influences as the rest.

 

 

Obviously, you read into KSW with a closed mind, not willing to accept the possiblility that you didn't know as much as you thought you did.

 

Why would you say KSW is "under the same influences as the rest", without giving a reason? Have you even seen it? Do you understand what is meant by "indigenous"? Do you know what those ancient techniques looked like?

 

In fact, how do I know you even have enough martial arts skill and knowlegde to be even judging the merits of a particular style?

 

See, the doubting game is very easy to play.

 

Have a nice day!

[Akima]

Is it unique for korean styles, Yes I think so. But I still think it was under tha same influences as the rest.

 

 

Obviously, you read into KSW with a closed mind, not willing to accept the possiblility that you didn't know as much as you thought you did.

 

Why would you say KSW is "under the same influences as the rest", without giving a reason? Have you even seen it? Do you understand what is meant by "indigenous"? Do you know what those ancient techniques looked like?

 

In fact, how do I know you even have enough martial arts skill and knowlegde to be even judging the merits of a particular style?

 

See, the doubting game is very easy to play.

 

Have a nice day!

 

And you sound just like every other KSW cult member.

 

You are so close minded you only believe what your master tells you. You do not go outside your organziation to look for alternate histories. Fact is KSW is no older than 1958.

[DLopez]

Fact is KSW is no older than 1958.

 

That is true - the system of KSW put together by In Hyuk Suh, was started in 1958. Where was that ever denied?

 

Too bad that isn't the issue.

 

If the age of the World Kuk Sool Won Association is your "proof" that KSW is derived from Japanese martial arts, then that is weak.

 

You aren't the first one to claim you know more about KSW and it's roots than the Koreans, and you won't be the last.