Attending 2nd ShorinRyu class, very strange things happening

[Shorin Ryuu]

Secondly, I'm not sure exactly which branch of Shorinryu they are practicing, but certainly not the Matsumura Kenpo/Seito system that I do, as head kicks are NEVER done, but they displayed one on the webpage. It appears to me to be perhaps a bit "modernized" branch maybe? I'm really not very familiar with the other systems of Shorinryu. Can someone shed some light on those two points for me please?

 

I was going to leave that photo alone for a while until other stuff sank in...but yeah, that jumped out at me as well. I've trained in both Matsumura Shorin Ryu and Kobayashi Shorin Ryu, and they never do any of those stylized high kicks, especially not with the upper body going down so low to compensate...such a trade off between height and balance is something you would never see in traditional Okinawan karate...

[P.A.L]

I am a brown belt in shotokan and black belt shorin-ryu Kobayashi here is my thoughts about these two ,I can’t prove them and nobody can disapprove them since our understanding of same karate concepts is different from one person to another and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

1- Okin. styles are based on Go-Ju (either Naha-te or Shuri-te) at the end of each technique you need to lose the muscles and next move starts from lose to hard at the point of contact, Last week I was in a dojo ( Jap. Stayle low stances , rigid, power full ,very nice looking katas) during a test two Nidan advanced to Sandan, after the test the sensei says “ Now you are Sandan you need to learn loseing the muscles after each block or punch” and don’t think it’s easy try it your self you will see it’s not. I remember at the end of a kata my sensei said “ you can breath now” and he was right I was so tense that I was not breathing.

 

2- as far as kiai we do have kiai(I only heard a real kiai once and my heart bit suddenly jumped up clearly and funny thing is ,it came from my shorin sensei who never kiai ) but honestly I think my kiai is a joke it’s not gonna work in a real life situation and I am not gonna use it anyway . We have something like kiai but it’s a short and almost soundless when you use it for accelerating a move( my sensei call it hitting someone by lung), and I am not talking about “pis pis “ I can hear all over the McDojos.

 

3- physical Inner power comes from abdomen and we learn it through Sanchi-dachi or Naihanchi-dachi by rolling up the upper tight and lower abdomen muscles, this way you concentrate the energy at the center of your body , and you have to do this while moving

 

in a real fight.

 

4- Shotokan already has proven itself, it’s well documented, and organized and if we have a chance to put the karate in Olympic games it comes from shotokan mainly.

 

Old shuri style is a mean to disable an attacker with minimum energy consumption so it

 

Look softer, katas looks not as good as shotokan since it shows you the real fithing stances, that’s why you see lots of shizentai-dachi or nekuashi-dachi , who is dare to

 

Block a punch in Kekutso-dachi in a real fight, who is dare to stance in kiba-dachi in a back to wall fight like we see in Tekki, fighting stance is Naihanchi dachi as sensei Motobu says in his book.

 

5- you see lots of differences in early years but I guess after 10-15 years they all come together since they have the same goal they just go through different routs.

 

6- your problem about timing and distance can be solved in shotokan dojo, you realy don’t need another style, I even think a strong shotokan fighter can do better than a kyukoshin karate-ka in a real fight since they know how to protect their head better.

 

7- if you don't mind ask your sensei what style of shorin-ryu he teaches.

[goedikey]

Hey thanks for the help guys !

 

As for high kicks, the sensei doesnt stress them whatsoever.

 

its mostly the students who ilke to show off.

 

i believe his web page was done by one of his students. Sensei is still using a typewriter in his office )) and probably doesnt use the Internet.

 

As for the gui's, he makes them himself.

 

As for the style, it is sobayashi.

 

Are there any questions I could ask that could make me know for sure if this is a good Shorin school ?

 

I know that most of what was taught to me as of yet is from the bunkai of some Shotokan katas.

 

Thanks !

[Shorin Ryuu]

Ask what the "chambered hand" is really used for.

 

Ask what the "yoi" position in your kata is used for.

 

Ask what the lineage of his style is (he should be able to tell you several teachers back).

 

Ask how big a part does pressure point theory play in advanced levels (should be pretty big).

 

Do you do three-quarters rotation punch or a full rotation punch? If you do a full rotation punch, ask why and see if this is only for beginners (until black belt or something). Traditional schools use three-quarters punch for a variety of reasons (There has been several 3/4 vs. full rotation threads in the past here).

 

If he can't (or won't) give you better reasons than "Its just always been done that way" or "This represents your empty hand", than it may not be the best school.

 

He might be suspicious or curious why you would ask some of these (deeper) questions right off. Just be honest if he does and tell him that you heard that Shorin Ryu had some certain characteristics and you were genuinely curious.

 

And a note, it is "gi" not "gui's". If he rarely if ever uses the internet, I'm sure he doesn't make Graphical User Interfaces on a regular basis...

 

Let me know the answers and I'll tell you, but it will just be conjecture as I'm not the one there observing your class...

[Drunken Monkey]

......y'know, sometimes, you shouldn't give so much free info.....

[Shorin Ryuu]

......y'know, sometimes, you shouldn't give so much free info.....

 

I agree that there should be some knowledge withheld from beginners to ensure trust and proper skill level is achieved. However, the questions I told him to ask about the punch, the yoi position and the "chamber" are really things I believe that a vast amount of styles teach out there in a very simplified or mistaken manner. By that I mean that they don't understand why they do it or have never thought about it (this stems perhaps from a heavy emphasis on not questioning tradition, perhaps).

 

I'm interested first in what his teacher responds with though, then we'll do a discussion of my opinions on it...

 

As far as knowledge to be withheld, I believe that certain things, like advanced pressure point theory that will render an enemy unconscious by shutting of blood flow or kill someone is the kind of stuff that should be withheld from beginners. Basic stuff like the yoi position, the chamber, and the punch is stuff I think they should teach completely openly without holding back from the beginning. Even more advanced concepts like tai sabaki (body change) and the like should be incorporated from square one honestly to give time for the beginner to develop it, even if he or she does not fully understand it.

 

I understand your sentiment, I just didn't think it applied to this case.

 

Lastly, this is a karate forum, so I thought it would be appropriate to share as much (safe) knowledge as possible.

[P.A.L]

1-the patch doesn’t show anything as I understood it only says “karate”

 

2-there is no sobayashi ryu it’s either kobayashi or shobayashi

 

3-you mentioned they practice some shotokan kata bunkai which I think you were referring to pinan kata which is heian in shotokan , both shobayashi ( from Eizo shimabukuru) and kobayashi (from chosin chibana) practice pinan after learning Naihanchi series (Tekki in shotokan), I’ve heard that in shobayashi ryu seisan isa basic kata before Naihanchi.

 

4-if your sensei learned from Eizo shimabukuru or one of his students then your lineage goes to sensei chotoku Kyan and you can be sure it’s a pure Okinawa ‘te’ (although later shimabukuru corrected his katas in chibana sensei's dojo)

 

5-if he learned from chibana students then your lineage goes to ituso sensei ,and close to shotokan since funakoshi was a student of ituso as well .

 

trust your sensei, I used to question my senseis all the time to make sure they teach real stuff but now i think that was stupid.

[goedikey]

Hey thanks for dropping in !

 

Heres is the lineage. Another mate said he didnt know about the last names but also said it could be valid :

 

http://home.online.no/~desinil/Genokart.htm

 

and here is a quote from on of the parent schools :

 

Our main dojo (Honbu dojo) is Nippon Shorinryu Karatedo Kenshinkai in Fukuoka, Japan. Honbu dojo is under the command of Sensei S. Nakano (7th. Dan black belt)

 

Thanks !

[G95champ]

Again I want to point out that one step sparring should be very close to free style. Espically when you get to one step semi free. The key to it is both people have to go as hard as they can. All to often I see people do it half speed and yes it don't work if you slow it down that much. You get what you put into it.

 

One other note on high blackbelts. 5th and 6th Dan's IMO are an oddity. Not saying there not but to be that high you SHOULD be arround 50 or older. If you got guys in there 20 and 30's wearing a 5th Dan then its prob. should be a red flag. Again Im not taking anything from the class just trying to give you the heads up on some things.

 

Best of luck.

 

BTW us Shotokan guys are die hards for our style lol

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Again I want to point out that one step sparring should be very close to free style. Espically when you get to one step semi free. The key to it is both people have to go as hard as they can. All to often I see people do it half speed and yes it don't work if you slow it down that much. You get what you put into it.

 

This is exactly what I do with my students. I tell the attacker to attack as hard, or harder than the defender can handle. You do them no favors by coddling them and making it easy for them. My senior student, 6'4", 230lb and very solid, attacks me full force...as I require him to do.